Jeff Smulyan is the founder and chief executive officer of Emmis Communications. He managed dozens of radio stations across the U.S. and he started the first all sports talk radio station. Jeff listened to baseball games on his transistor radio as a kid and when he grew up and was working in the radio business he said to himself, “What the heck? I love baseball. So I bought the Seattle Mariners in 1989.” Jeff wrote a book, ‘Never Ride a Rollercoaster Upside Down’. In it, he reveals the truth about the road to success, the lessons he’s learned, and memoirs of the highs and lows of being an entrepreneur. Jeff joins us from Indianapolis to talk about the radio business and how the advent of radio and digital technology has influenced the way we get our information, the reason for the radio industry declining and how streaming services are great for the listeners, but not so great for broadcasters. Jeff worked in radio when it was fun- it fostered nationwide experiences. We now have so much choice of content; everyone is listening to something different and at different times. But can you imagine sitting around with your friends listening to a baseball game together or rocking out to Kansas’ ‘Carry on Wayward Son’? This episode will make you feel nostalgic and maybe sad that radio is not what it used to. Transcription Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:00:02 The sound off podcast. The show about podcast and broadcast starts now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:13 One of the things I learned about David Letterman's show, whenever he had a guest who had just written a book, he would never tell the audience about the book until the end of a segment. Then he would hold up the book for the audience to see. Turns out that the TV research showed that if people knew the guest was plugging their book, less people would watch and might even flip the channel to see who Jay Leno had on. Well, I'm not David Letterman, but my guest this week has written a book and has worked with David Letterman. Jeff Somalion is the founder of Emmis Broadcasting, creator of the first all sports radio station, and once was part owner of the Seattle Mariners. And now we can add author to that list of accomplishments. Jeff Somalion joins me from his office in Indianapolis. The beginning of most of our careers happens around university, and I'm always curious about why people choose what they choose. And you chose telecommunications and history. Now I understand why you chose USC, that's obvious. But why those two fields? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:01:11 Well, I actually started out I was going to be a political science major, and I had a couple of political science classes as a freshman and said, I think I'll switch to history. And then it's funny, I have to laugh. SC did not have a big telecom program in those days. Now today, the Annenberg School is one of the finest in the world. And we have Annenberg has like two or three buildings, and Willow Bay is the dean. It's fabulous. But in those days, I probably could have majored in it, but there weren't that many classes. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:39 What was the radio station that gave you your first buzz that made you think, I got to be involved in radio? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:01:45 Well, I grew up listening to Wife in Indianapolis. Also WLS in Chicago. When I started college in 1965, it was just when KHJ was starting in LA and that was really a major entity. And I think I always loved Radio. I grew up listening to baseball games on Clear Channel radio stations. And it's ironic, I wrote my larvae article on the Clear Channel rule, but I listened to I was a big Giants fan, so I listened to Giants in Cincinnati and St. Louis and Philadelphia and New York games out of Houston. So radio was just an integral part of my life. Always loved the business, always thought it was a tremendous amount of fun. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:27 So a couple of things. I think a lot of us who love baseball fell in love with radio through baseball because the games were at night and, oh, look, I'm picking up a game from Chicago, and I'm picking up a game on KMOX. But at the same time, Indianapolis has had this exciting radio. It's fertile ground for talent. I think it's because it's around the Great Lakes, and there's lots of great radio coming in from all directions. What's your feeling on that? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:02:57 Well, again, it was a unique marriage. I've talked to more friends who grew up listening to top 40 radio in the 60s, mid, late 50s, early 60s. That was sort of the dawn of top 40. And as I've given speeches about the book, the transistor was, I think, a mid 50s invention. It made radio portable. It could put radio in everybody's pocket. And I think the American passion for baseball in those days, it's hard to describe how different it is today when the passion in this country is for football. But clearly every kid seemed to care about rock and roll music and baseball. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:35 Your dad bought a station in 1973, and you worked there as the general manager. Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:03:41 Yeah. Well, what happened was, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I was going to go back and get a master's in telecom. Somebody said, I have to laugh in those days. If you want to be an entrepreneur, get a law degree. Today everybody would get an MBA. And when I got done, I was looking for stations out there, and my dad said, look, come home. I've got a cousin who has a small station, it's not doing well, he needs a lot of help. Come back and run it. And while you're waiting to start your company, do this. And my mom sort of talked me into coming home. First six months I went back to Indiana. I said, why did I do this? And then after that, I've fallen in love with the place. And now I've had a zillion opportunities to leave, but I never leave because it's home. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:22 It was a news talk station, I believe, and David Letterman was on the staff. Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:04:26 David Letterman was our midday guy. And David, when he took the job, he said, I'm going to do this for a year, and then I'm going to try to go to Hollywood and become a writer and comedian, and the rest is history. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:36 Did the station have a relationship with NBC at that point? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:04:39 Not at that point. At that point, it was strictly an independent news talk sports station. We had news in the morning and David's talk show in the midday and sports in the afternoon. Later, in 1974 or five, NBC decided that they were going to try an all news network, primarily on their FM stations. They didn't have enough faith in it to put it on their big AM stations around the country. But we realized that saving a lot of overhead. It was very tough to get enough ratings in those days with a daytime station. So they were the news and information network. They provided you with all your programming. You went local for news blocks, news breaks, and they did it for about, probably 15 months. And then they threw in the towel and said, we can make this work. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:27 And what was your next move? Was that Omaha? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:05:29 No, that was religion. We realized that as a daytime station, it was going to be very tough to get big ratings or decent ratings in an Indianapolis market with basically the four or five big AM stations that were full time, as well as starting the growth of FM. So we realized that probably the best thing for that station was religion, and we did it, and it worked well. And then we ended up going to Omaha and buying Bob Gibson's AM and making that religion as well. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:58 So there's still an entrepreneur in you? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:06:00 There's always been an entrepreneur in me, I always say I'm an entrepreneur because I'm not hireable by anybody else in a free society. So I've always been an entrepreneur. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:10 So between 75 and then the creation of Emmis, was there anything entrepreneurial that took place in there, or was Emmis the entrepreneurial venture? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:06:16 Yeah, Emmis was always the idea to put the company together, find a station to buy. We actually bought the station in 79. It took us two years to get everything done. So the Emmis really started ongoing, sort of trying to find the partners, trying to find the station for several years before we got it done. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:34 Your book, by the way, brings back these incredible memories of my path, just going through radio and just seeing the call letters and remembering them all. And these are letters I haven't seen in years, things like WLOL and KPWR and WHN, renowned call letters. So tell me a little bit about the culture of Emmis that I didn't get to experience because I was living and working in Canada. Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:06:59 Well, I think emmis was always started with the idea that it was a people first company. If you read the book, you'll find the Eleven Commandments. I wrote the first Ten Commandments on a napkin at a manager's meeting 40 years ago when somebody said, what are our values? And it was never, jeopardize your integrity and have fun and be rational and believe in yourself and take care of your people. The 11th we added after the Major League Baseball experience, which was admit your mistakes, kind of a tongue in cheek approach to that. But I think the culture was always very collaborative. It was always having a group of people who had a say. We always said, give them a stake in the operations of the company and the ownership of the company. So I was very proud. I think that the people of Emmis have been fabulous, and many of us have stayed together since the very beginning. And people I'm proud of the fact that it's a company that's attracted and kept people for a long, long time. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:07:57 So as I was putting together this episode, I realized that I've actually already started writing another episode that has been about three or four years in the works, and it has to do with, I think, 1988 at HOT 97 in New York and the big concert launch that took place there. And I think I've got I want to have, say, Rocco Macri. I want to have him come on the show and talk about all that. But I managed to I got you on first. Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:08:21 Rocco was our promotions guy, went off to start I think it's promo suite. He's done very, very well. Very good guy, very good guy. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:08:28 I look forward to putting together that episode. And that was 1988. And in 1989, you bought a baseball team, right? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:08:37 I have a favorite saying in life the line between being a genius and an idiot is very fine. I've been on both sides many times. When you're right, you're a genius. When you're wrong, you're an idiot. So I have one chapter which is idiot to Genius, which is WFAN, which we put on the air, 1987. We talked about being a collaborative culture. Our managers didn't want to do it. And one of my friends said, what do you want to do? After we voted, they voted against it. And I said, you really can't lead where people won't follow. So we're not going to do all sports. And the next day, Rick Cummings, who was then head of programming, we've been together every day for 40 some years. Rick came in and said, look, we still think it's a stupid idea, but you want to do this, so we'll try it. And that was the ignominious birth of all sports radio in the United States. It didn't work well for a long time, and then it took off. And when it took off, it skyrocketed. We brought in Don IMAS. We switched to NBC's frequency. We brought in Mike and the Mad Dog, and then we were looking around for stuff to do. We had FM stations in every major market. We had carried the New York Mets on W Fan, which was originally Whn. We bought the stations from the Double Day family who owned the Mets. So we ended up in discussions and people said, gosh, you guys are great marketing guys. We have a very, very tough situation in Seattle. And we said, what the heck? We love baseball. I had theories, always had theories about the economics of sports, which, if you read the book, are all throughout the book, why things work in sports, why they don't. And I had been to Seattle as a kid and loved it and thought, what a great opportunity. So we bought the Seattle Mariners in 1989. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:10:18 I got to listen to the demise of WNBC, and then what came next, because I was in Montreal, I used to listen to WNBC at night, and then I started to listen to WFAN, and it was the New York Mets. And as a Montreal Expos fan, I already despised all of the New York Mets with the exception of Gary Carter, and I could hear it. And the Mets were really a big deal, and the timing was just right for WFAN to succeed, although it took a bit. Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:10:52 Yeah, well, it's funny, as we switched that the Mets were the defending world champions. I have to laugh. We bought NBC the next year. In those days, you could only own 01:00 a.m. and FM, and obviously the 660 frequency was a full clear channel. And so we knew we were going to switch to that frequency and sell 1050. We were talking to Don Imus, who had been on WNBC. We had always loved Don. I had been a fan of Don long before I got to New York, but Don had been in and out of rehab. And I remember meeting with his agent right before the switch, and I said it was Mike Lynn was his agent. I said, Mike, we have a radio station losing records amounts of money. We have a baseball team with more drug problems than anybody in Major League Baseball by that year, and we have a personality who's been in and out of rehab for the last five years. If we put all these together, what could possibly go wrong? And he laughed and we talked about it, but it took off and it became an iconic radio station. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:54 What was plan B instead of sports radio? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:11:57 Well, we could have left at country. It was country at Whn, we knew, even though everybody said it's the largest country music radio station in the United States. Well, that's true, because there's 16 million people in New York, but it was still about the 25th rated station in the market. And when we bought NBC, we had bankers and other investors who said, how long are you going to keep this WHN thing up? And we said, well, we're going to keep trying and see what we got. But it was losing a lot of money until we made the switch. We probably would have sold it or I doubt if we'd gone back to country music. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:31 How much time did you give it? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:12:33 Well, you always want to give it two or three years. Like I said, it lost so much money. Jim Lamply called it the Vietnam War of Emmis. It was effectually known as Smulyan's Folly for a long time. I come from a group of very serious needlers, so be at 05:00 and somebody say, well, we lost another $18,000 at Band today, so we were going to give it another year or so after the merger. Our bankers said, how long are you going to give it? And I always laughed and said, if we hadn't been hitting on all cylinders everywhere else, the bankers would have said, you better sell this. But it worked out. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:08 More with jeff in just a second. This is where we're going to talk about the future. What is the future for transmitters? Will radio even need them? How does he see digital and podcasting? And with baseball making rule changes, should radio let go of some of its rules. There's more, including a link to get a copy of Jeff's book Never Ride A Roller Coaster upside down on the episode page at soundoffpodcast.com. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:13:34 Transcription of The Soundoff Podcast is powered by the You May Also Like Podcast, the show about people, places, and things. Follow the show on your favorite podcast app or at youmayosolike.net. The Soundoff Podcast supports Podcasting 2.0, so feel free to send us a boost if you're listening on a newer podcast app. If you don't have a newer podcast app, you can get one at newpodcastapps.com. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:02 You've managed talent. You mentioned Emmis, Letterman. Ken Griffey is in there, too. What's the key to managing talent? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:14:11 I think the most important thing is respecting people. I don't care whether you're managing a receptionist or a salesperson or a traffic person or an engineer or one of the great center fielders of all time. Treat people like human beings. I have had a favorite saying. I've never met anybody who went to work in the morning and said, how do I screw my job up? So our job is to give that person the tools to succeed, give them the guidance and help them put a plan together and have them succeed. That's always been my sense. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:44 Radio and baseball have just gone together so well. I feel like so much that you've done has involved baseball, whether it was ownership or your early days listening. And we're looking at baseball today, going through these massive changes. How do you look at those? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:15:02 Well, the problem is, I was on the TV committee. One of my dearest friends in baseball was Bobby Brown, who just passed away. Bobby was a famous Yankee third baseman, became a cardio surgeon, heart surgeon, then became president of the American League. Bobby always wanted to go back to a simpler time when we played the games during the day and we did it the way we did it. And I used to say, Bobby, we got a younger generation that doesn't care about baseball as much. So I think I still remember we asked the league if we could put the speed of the pitches up. We had Randy Johnson, and we said, look, Randy's hitting 100 miles. Let's put on the scoreboard. And the league was like, oh, no, you can't do that. You break the traditions of the game. I was laughed and said, I think a hitter is up there, knows he's throwing 100 miles an hour. You don't have to give him any information he didn't already know. But I think the new changes, whether it's the pitch clock, whether it's the batters clock, whether it's making the bases bigger to allow easier stolen bases, you've got to make the game faster. You've got to make the game more exciting, palatably, younger people. Unfortunately or fortunately, the American public's fallen in love with football. It's fast. There's a lot of violence. They've fallen more in love with basketball. A very quick game. And I think baseball. I love baseball because it was a game where you could really sit with your dad in the ballpark and debate, who are they going to bring on the left hander here? Who are they going to pitch it here? It's a much more cerebral game, but we're at a time in North America, as you know, where we're less focused on cerebral things and more on instant gratification. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:16:41 I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that your purchase of the Mariners happened the same year as Jerry Jones of the Cowboys. Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:16:47 Yeah, Jerry did much better. Jerry's got a $5 billion business, and we went through three years of agony. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:16:55 What traditions does radio need to let go of? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:16:58 I'm not sure. It doesn't need to reemphasize the things that made it. I think the biggest problem radio has is it chases shiny new objects. We all fell in love with streaming. We fallen in love with podcasting. We've fallen in love with digital sales. Where radio really works is connections with people in a local market. If you look at my frustration with the business is some of the major players are now running 1820 units an hour. Commercials. They've stripped the local staff, and everything's piped in from 1000 miles away. They have no local involvement with their communities. That's what made the business. Is there a place for podcasting? Of course there is. Is there a place for streaming audio? Of course there is. Or satellite radio. But the things that made radio is it was local and it was live and it was free. And to me, for radio to succeed, and I think small market radio is doing a better job than the major companies, certainly financially, because they've stayed home in their communities and they've served them. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:04 Sports radio, it feels markedly different than anything else on the radio today. I think it's evolved well. Yeah, it's got some digital struggles, and I think its role is changing, but it's really progressed where talk radio has just regressed. How optimistic are you about sports radio and looking forward the next five to ten years? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:18:27 Well, I think sports radio has grown. I mean, I can't tell you how many people said, did you ever think it'd be 700 stations? I said, I didn't think WFAN would survive six more months. So, no, I'm astounded there are 700 stations, but it connects with people. The big thing we did in New York, we hired a network guy whose focus was sort of make this a national station. And nine months later we said, look, we got to make this a local station. We're New York centric, which is when it started to do well. But if you're in Indianapolis, you want guys who know about the Colts and the Pacers in Indiana and Purdue and Notre Dame and Butler, and they could talk about them all day long and debate them all day long. And I'm a history major, so I remember Karl Marx saying that religion is the opiate of the masses? Well, today in 2023, in the United States, sports is the opiate of the masses. This is what people care about. I always say, as the world gets more complicated, sports is a great place to sort of disappear. Wrap yourself around what's going to happen in the NFL draft next week, or is John Morant going to come back and play in the playoffs for the former Vancouver Grizzlies, if you will. So it's that, and I think as long as it matter again, if it matters to people, then it will work. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:49 How do you view the radio transmission tower and over the air content versus this onslaught of digital? And I mentioned this because I saw that the CBC in Canada was thinking about phasing this out. And this morning I wake up to Twitter, Facebook, and all sorts of other nonsense suppressing algorithms, and I'm like, maybe you want to hold on to those. How do you look at that? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:20:13 It's funny. If you read the book, you'll understand my obsession with saving that. The next radio project was a project that I got drafted into. One of the heads of the NAB, David Rear, came in and said, you know that in phones in Europe and Asia, they put an FM chip in there and for $5, people can listen to the radio over the year and we need to do that here and a group of CEOs said, gosh, we should. Somebody remembered we had partnered with Nokia in an application in Finland and said, we look into it. And I looked into it and I fell in love with it. And you have to remember, radio started its portability with transistor radios in the graduated to walkman and boomboxes. But in the last 15 years, radio's portability has kind of died. So if you understand the economics of streaming audio, you understand that having a terrestrial radio with that terrestrial tower you just talked about is an incredibly different economic proposition for the broadcaster. I'll give the example I gave in speeches when I was trying to convince everybody that we needed to embrace this. I just talked about Power 106 in Los Angeles. I said, I got a radio station in Los Angeles, Power 106. My cost of distribution is about $65,000 a year. That is the cost of the electricity to power my transmitter. So once I pay that cost, I have no more distribution cost, and my signal can reach one person in Southern California or 15 million, no incremental cost. But if I took that transmitter down and I streamed digitally, then all of a sudden my distribution is one to one. And that means that for every listener I get, I've got a data cost to reach them. They've got a data cost to reach me. And in the United States, we also pay music licensing fees for performance digitally that we don't pay over the air. So if you add up the cost so I said, look, take my same 3 million listeners a week and take them off the transmitter, and I have to reach the same people, same amount of time through streaming. My cost is about a million dollars a year just for data transmission, and another probably $500,000 a year for music licensing. And my listeners are going to pay another million dollars in data costs to receive that over the course of the year. So you've got two and a half million dollars versus $65,000. Well, that's why every time I ask anybody, has anybody made money streaming? The answer is always no. Spotify at one point had, I think, a $60 billion market cap. They still can't make any money because they're locked in with high music cost and other distribution cost. So that's why we used to say, every time I take the same listener listening to the same content from over the year to streaming, I take a 30% margin profit margin customer and make him a ten or 15% margin losing customer because the math has never worked. So we've fallen in love with streaming, but nobody makes money at streaming. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:27 And I'll dovetail this back to an episode where I had Jason Barrett on, and we talked a lot about the struggles of counting those digital listeners and the attribution of the 25 to 54s who are listening to a Mets game through their computer and streaming it. How do we count all that and make money from it? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:23:47 Well, and that's the problem. The problem is it's very difficult. For years, people would say, I've got my stream of HOT 97 in New York, and I'm going to sell it independently of my over the air signal. And what you learn is your advertisers would pay you a fraction for the streaming signal as they would for the over the air. We finally just said, add them all together, you may get two tenths of a point more, and you could sell everything together. But forgive me, these are all long, boring answers to the challenges the industry faces. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:24:19 Oh, I think people are very excited with these answers. Hey, the riches are in the niches in this podcast. And speaking of podcasting, you're looking at audio that is now on demand. It's time shifted. It's an RSS feed. It's tough to put a fence around it. How do you look at podcasting? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:24:39 Well, again, what I look at a lot of this is monumental value transfer from the distributors, the content creators, to the consumer. The consumer's got 3 million podcasting choices, and it's very difficult other than for the top hundred podcasters to make any real money. But consumers get the benefit of a lot of neat stuff. There's very few subscription things out there. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:25:07 Jeff, if you could do it all over again, just take back one decision in your career so far that you could reverse. Which is it? Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:25:15 Well, I've talked about in the book, not stepping up to try to buy the Minnesota Vikings was an egregious mistake. There's two my friend Carl Polad, I had an idea that you've always had a stadium problem in Minnesota in those days. And I said, if Carl on the Twins and the Vikings, he could sit down with the government and say, let's figure all this out. Carl loved the idea, and he said, if you'll do this, put up whatever you want, you can run the whole thing, be a major equity owner. And I was taking my kids on a trip to Europe and Israel right when the bid was due, and I just said, you know what? I'm taking the trip. In retrospect, not a good idea. You never know if you're going to win a bid. There's always two or three other bidders, but that probably was an egregious, egregious mistake. The other one was my friend David Stern, who was a big fan of ours, and I had a great relationship with him. He called me one day at the very end of our tenure with the Mariners and said, I have a bet with somebody. If somebody today gave you the Seattle Mariners for free in the only conditions where baseball could never solve its revenue sharing problems and you had to stay in Seattle for ten years, would you take the free team? And I laughed and said, no, because in ten years, the free team would cost me half a billion dollars with losses. And I said, that didn't get into the psychic cost of fighting these battles every day. So he laughed. He said, I knew that's what you'd say. And when he got out of baseball, he called me and said, I have a problem with the Houston Rockets. I need help. I'll get you all the money you need. Take the team over. And I said, David, I got to go fix Emmis. Emmis is struggling. Went through the downturn of 91, 92, and I turned him down. And obviously, that was, in retrospect, a pretty egregious mistake. But I have a favorite saying about my life is if any one of ten things had happened, my company be a thousand times bigger. And if anyone of other ten other things had happened, I'd be sweeping street somewhere. So my life worked out pretty darn well. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:27:10 Jeff, thanks so much for taking the time to be on the podcast. All the information about the book, by the way, is in the show notes. Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:27:17 Okay. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:27:19 Thank you so much. Jeff and I had no idea about that Minnesota story. I just spent the weekend in Minneapolis and incredible. And I hope to get a chance to meet you at one of the radio events in the near future. Jeff Smulyan (Guest) 00:27:30 Wonderful. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:27:31 The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill, produced by Evan Serminsky edited by Chloe Emond-Lane. Social media by Aidan Glassey. Another great creation from the Sound Off Media Company. There's always more at soundoff podcast.com.

Jeff Vidler knows research. Before programming radio, he worked with John Parikhal and Dave Charles at Joint Communications, the venerable radio research group. After his time programming the newly launched Mix 96 in Montreal, he went on to work He worked with (what is now) Ipsos-Reid before forming his own research-led companies like Vision Critical, Audience Insights and now Signal Hill Insights; an audio research company that helps individuals and businesses interested in using audio to connect with people. You may know someone that wants to start a podcast and may roll our eyes when you hear this because the world already has 4 million podcasts. Jeff thinks that now is the best time to start a podcast, and that we don’t yet know its full potential. Jeff tells us that “Even in a recession, revenues are still growing. Podcasting is still probably the only medium that's experiencing double digit growth of ad revenues in a recession. The professional podcast, independent podcaster, I think has tremendous opportunities now.” There will always be a podcast out there for someone, but of course the challenge is to continue to engage people. Jeff and his team examine the trends, the numbers, the algorithms, the analytics - that’s all very useful, but what’s important is how this information is used to better connect with an audience. Be careful - you’ll have a listen to this episode and it will give you the motivation to start the podcast you were thinking about launching. The Canadian Podcast Listener's Client Advisory Council has been developed as a forum to ensure the study addresses market needs, and to discuss initiatives to move the Canadian podcast industry forward. Check out the webinar Jeff helped develop, ‘The Medium Moves the Message’ on the The Sounds Profitable website about the comparative study of the effects of advertising across radio, TV and on-demand platforms. Tom Webster specializes in market research and is a partner at Sound Profitable. He talks about the importance of getting to know your audience on a Sounds Profitable podcast episode called, “5 Ways to… “ which is co-hosted with Arielle Nissenblatt. You can connect to our episodes with the Sounds Profitable team at the bottom of the page. The Sound Off Podcast Network is a sponsor of Sounds Profitable. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:00:02 The Sound Off Podcast. The show about podcast and broadcast starts now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:12 The first time I met Jeff Vidler was at a Bishop Street bar called Grumpy's in Montreal in 1993. I wanted to say that I was meeting up with Rob Braid and we were going to go see the Archangels and Big Sugar play the Spectrum. We all had a few drinks together. But what I learned in that meeting was that Jeff was very sharp when it came to research and was good at arming the sales department with data to sell radio. Now, if I could have fast forwarded 30 years later to today, you know what I'd say? Wait, what happened to radio? And what the fuck is a podcast? Jeff and I have worked together on numerous projects involving radio station branding in the we spend a lot of time looking at podcasts. He heads up Signal Hill Insights, and we have him on the show today to talk about podcast trends. If you're into radio streaming or podcasting, you should sign up for their newsletter. His company is also the author of the Canadian Podcast Listener. The latest version of that is always at Canadianpodcastlistener dot CA. Jeff Vidler joins me from the offices of Signal Hill Insights in Toronto. Jeff, there's been a lot about podcasting being in a downturn. There's been a lot of bad news. Depending on what podcast about, podcasts you listen to or what newsletter. Yet the listenership keeps growing. What's going on? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:01:29 Well, I think this is an industry that is still very much in. I would say we're past infancy now and we're maybe even past our preteens, but we're maybe in our teenage years, but there's a maturing of the marketplace. I think in a very broad sense there has been an enormous amount of growth podcast listening and advertising revenue over the past four or five years that attracted a lot of what Eric Nisum calls dumb money into podcasting. People said, wow, there's money to be made here. And so they started to spend tons of money try to be number one in the space. Lots of people trying to launch their podcast to be the next Joe Rogan on a sort of very independent level. So, yes, we look now. And a lot of that was irrationally exuberant. Paul Rizma Del, who's our chief insights officer at Signal Hill now that's the term he uses for that stage. But again, audience is growing. Even in a recession, revenues are still growing. Podcasting is still probably the only medium that's experiencing double digit growth of ad revenues in a recession. Now. It's not doing what it was before, this sort of pending recession where it was like Moore's Law of ad revenues. It was doubling every two years, growth last year, there is growth from last year, and those numbers will be coming out for the IAB relatively soon. There is growth, but it's not at the same level of what was expected. But there's still a lot of robust growth in terms of ad revenues and podcasting. There's still more people coming into the medium. There's absolutely no reason to expect that people will stop wanting to listen to audio on demand. I mean, it is just the on demand trend, and audio is actually kind of the last one to kind of catch up to that. And there's still lots of opportunity for growth there. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:32 You and I were talking just before we started this about Rob Greenlee, who sees a shift going back to the roots of podcasting. Do you see it that way? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:03:41 Yeah, I think that's true. I think that one of the sort of shakeout that's happened is at the very kind of top end of podcasting. And you think of the Spotify as the ultimate example, that enormous amount of money that was spent from big players who wanted to be number one in the space. Some of that money is pulled back because there's certainly growth there. But they're not going to be necessarily own the entire podcast audience. It's going to be shared among multiple networks, and that's a good thing. And I think the other thing that's happened, too, is a lot of those hobbyists people said, hey, I'm going to do a podcast, and sort of doing something out of their bedroom and trying it for a little while. And that expanded that universe of podcasts. It went from 60,000 to 100,000 back in 2016 to, what was it, 4 million. Well, a lot of those people have gone away because they realize it's not that easy to do a great podcast that people want to listen to when they have so much choice and so many options out there. But that leaves the middle ground. The professional podcast, independent podcaster, I think has tremendous opportunity now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:51 Absolutely. You know what I get excited about every week when somebody says they want to start a podcast, I say now is a great time because there's under 400,000 who are actively releasing episodes into this space every other week or whatever the stat was. But when you look at the number of active podcasts, it's encouraging. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:05:12 Absolutely. And a lot of those podcasts are making money or have a great reason to exist, even if they're not making revenue. They're also delivering against other purposes as well branded podcasts. For example, they may be making money for the producer, but they're not necessarily making money if the brand is doing that really as a gift to their customers and their audience. And that's a big part of what that 400,000 of active podcast still is. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:41 We were talking earlier about companies who are striving to be number one. iHeart has succeeded depending on which chart that you look at. And I remember back in 2018, I think a lot of people looked at iHeart's venture into podcasting with a little bit of skepticism, but there they are at number one, and they did exactly what Tom Webster told them to, which is to go make a lot of junk. And by junk we really just mean it could have been celebrity podcasts or anybody who was eliminated from The Bachelor or Bachelorette, and then they made some purchases along the way and they've done very, very well for themselves. How would you grade it? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:06:16 I think one of the things that they were able to do, first of all, they had an enormous inventory of radio shows that were able to generate podcast listens as well, which helped to expand the size of their network and listener base. But also they consciously went after the mainstreaming of podcast listening, taking it from where it was, which was really an outgrowth of public media to something that was broader and reached more Americans and really has been part of really what I think has either fueled that growth or latched on to that growth that's happened in podcast listening over the last few years. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:55 Now we'll go to the other side, which is NPR, which has about, I think it was publishing about 50 podcasts but getting roughly the same audience as I heart would. And now they've had to go through a little bit of change over the last few months as it pertains to podcasting and the industry. It is their number one revenue source. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:07:17 Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's an interesting time for them to sort of recalibrate what they're doing in podcast space. Really go back to when podcasting really became something of value in the sense that there were more and more listeners using podcasts. It was because it was really solving a problem for public radio listeners that they could listen to their favorite shows on their time. They didn't have to set the clock at 10:00 Sunday morning to listen to This American Life. They could listen to this American Life when they're driving up to the cottage or when they were going for a walk with their dog. And it was a younger audience because a younger audience was more inclined and still is more inclined towards on demand media and it really helped them a lot and it helped podcasting grow. As podcasting became more mainstream, there are more options. It's not just really kind of public media, public radio shows that are time shifted to your convenience. There's a lot of other options available to people there and that has made them I mean, they still have a lot of podcasts that have a very high audience, but it's made them a face in the crowd rather than the leading thrust of podcasting. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:08:36 What did you talk about at Podcast Movement with Dave Beasing and a few others? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:08:41 We talked about branded podcasts and we've done a lot of work in branded podcasts and going back to 2016, working with Pacific Content who really are still with the leader in that space, doing some really great high end narrative podcasts for some big brands. In the US. So for that session, we talked really about how can you give the measurement to the brands that you're working for to help them feel more comfortable that the money they're spending, and sometimes they're spending a lot of money for a branded podcast is actually delivering for them. So on one side, we do brand lift studies for brands that want to try to establish do people like this podcast? Is it really engaging them? How does it changing the way they feel about the brand? So we do studies that help to establish the extent to which they do. And we have benchmarks and we're able to compare the performance of individual branded podcasts to others. We've done about three dozen of them now over the last few years. But also at that same session, Jonas Woost from Bumper was there. And Jonas and Dan Meisner have other ways of measuring success for podcasts. And the one thing that they've developed, which is really interesting, is this notion of listen time. Are you familiar with that? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:10:02 Yeah, I read through their idea of it. I did see one piece of pushback from Hot News, James Cridland. I mean, his show is four minutes, so it's not going to be a whole lot of listen time. But for a show like the one we're doing right now, we can bang 30, 60 minutes if we can get people to the end of the episode every week. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:10:22 And really it's about how much time people are spending with your brand and successful podcast. If it's one that people listen all the way through the episodes and if they go from one episode to another to another, well, it sort of changes that whole metric around. Oh, but this is a branded podcast, it only has 10,000 downloads. But what that misses is that it has 10,000 people, many of who are engaged with the podcast and listening constantly. And that's an audience. You've built a relationship and a depth of engagement with an audience that you wouldn't be able to get any other way. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:01 So is that something that you look at as completion rate when you're working with a network or a branded podcast? That you're going to Apple and Spotify and opening up and finding out what that completion rate number is? And to that, what is the number that makes you happy? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:11:17 We measure engagement differently. We ask people how they felt about what they listened to. Would you listen to another episode? And a lot of those things do tend to line up those podcasts that are really successful in being able to extend listen time. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:29 I still think the answer is 80%. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:11:32 80% completion of a single episode? Yeah, actually that's a number that sounds like a good benchmark and it depends on the podcast and what you're doing. But often they're as low as 60%, sometimes they're 95%. Right. But if you get to 80, you're doing really well. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:47 Well, I've also had 105%, especially on an episode like this one where people have to go back and take their notes. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:11:55 Or they can say, what did he just say? What was that? There's no way that's true. Let me listen to that again. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:02 And just to be truthful about the whole thing, most of the podcast episodes, at one point there were about 80% and then there was a point I think Apple might have changed the way the app worked, but it did drop by about 10%. So I'm seeing a lot of 72% to 75% depending on the episode that we released, which I think is pretty good. I think if I can get over 75 or 80%, I'm pretty satisfied with myself. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:12:28 You should feel good about that. Absolutely. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:30 Is the download still good? As a form of metric, it's the best we got. Or can we maybe combine it with consumption and maybe come up with a separate metric? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:12:40 Yeah, I mean, it's the best we have at this point, there's no question. Right. But you look at something like listen time and let's just take this back to the radio model as an example. Now, downloads are not the same thing as unique, but let's just say downloads can give you a unique measure of how many people uniquely downloaded your podcast over a month. And if you are able to develop that listen time, then you are able to develop what can effectively be the reach and the time spent listening. Right. I think we'll see that time come, but there's going to have to be a few walls come down in measurement first. You'll have to be able to have more podcasters, will have to have greater visibility into how much people are actually listening to the full podcast, more than the kind of information they might be getting from Apple or Spotify. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:32 Right now, you used a term which I've never heard of before and I'm glad you're going to introduce it to whoever else hasn't heard this before and that's the idea of industrial podcasts. What is that? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:13:44 I see it just as part of the evolution or part of the opportunity that's ahead for podcasting. If we say, well, where are there opportunities for growth? One of those areas is in the area of, you know, of industrial videos. There opportunity for industrial podcasts are there too. And that's quite different from a branded podcast because branded podcasts are really made to be great content that you choose to listen to among all the other podcasts that you have available to you. An industrial podcast is a little bit different. It might be a CEO talking about the plans for the company, checking in with employees every quarter or every month with an update of that. It might be part of an overt marketing strategy that you have prospects, and prospects want to understand more about the people who work there, people who are running the show. Podcasts are a great way to introduce those people and have them understand those people, what they think about what they stand for. And I think the ultimate example of that industrial podcast is the Bob Pittman podcast for iHeart. He's the head of iHeart, and he's very professional, has great interviews, is entertaining, but also very much. It's something for Iheart employees and for people doing business with Iheart to have an understanding of who that guy is that's running Iheart, and definitely helps to shape the image and value of Iheart by having that sense of connection to that CEO. So that's what I mean by industrial podcasts. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:15:18 If you want to connect with that podcast, it is now in the show notes of this episode. I remember you and I had gone to dinner, we were in Toronto, and you gave me the bad news as we were walking back to the hotel, headed towards another drink. And that was about marketing your podcast. And I think you referenced at the time, Steve Pratt at Pacific Content and how they market their podcast to success. And since that time, when we look at marketing podcasts, how do you look at some of the ways to market a podcast and how it's changed whether the show is branded or not? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:15:52 Obviously, discoverability is the biggest problem from listener point of view and getting listeners to discover your podcast is the biggest challenge from podcaster point of view. So one thing we do in Canadian podcast listener, we've done it now for three years running, is we ask people to think of the podcast they most recently started listening to and we ask them, so where did you first hear about that podcast? And that gives us a little bit of insight in terms of what marketing channels tend to be most effective at exposing people to new podcasts. And some of it is obvious and you hear it all the time. The number one advertising category in podcasts is other podcasts. So number one, typically at around 20%, say they discovered that podcast from hearing it promoted on another podcast. Or maybe it was a guest on that podcast who talked about their podcast. That's possible, right? The number two was word of mouth. Somebody told me about it, it was recommended to me. And I always think that sometimes podcasters miss that as an opportunity. If you love this podcast, tell a friend about it. If you think it's right for them, make sure do that for us. That would help us, right? Instead of just listen to it. Wherever you listen to podcasts, maybe that's one of the lines you could use at the back end of your podcast. Tell a friend about why you love this podcast. But we look then at what are the other levers that podcasters publishers are looking at to promote their podcast. Certainly a lot of money is spent on social media, and in fact, we do see social media come up. About 10% of the audience say they found out about the podcast on social media, but we do actually ask whether it was a sponsored post for that podcast or whether it was just someone they happen to follow on social media. Typically, it's seven to one. I heard about the podcast from the social media feed of someone that I follow, not advertised posts. There's a lot of money going to social media, but really and, you know, it's about earned, not owned social media that really helps to deliver that. And that's really important. A host has to work social media effectively. You know, that Matt and most good hosts with successful podcasts do that. Make sure your guests are promoting their appearance on social media. That's going to have more impact than whatever you might be able to buy on social media. And not to say that that's not helpful, but that's only part of the picture. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:25 And one of my favorite strategies is to go to their Facebook page on their birthday and thank them for joining me on the podcast earlier this year. Because everybody who knows that person is now going to go and listen to their friend on Facebook. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:18:36 Brilliant, brilliant. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:37 Go and listen to their friend on the podcast I mean. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:18:39 Sounds like you were a radio programmer at one time. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:42 Yeah, it's still there. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:18:43 No kidding. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:44 And I think that's a great point about where did you find this podcast. So if you can't afford to work with Bumper and Jonas and Dan, one thing you can do is do perhaps a survey and just ask people, hey, how did you discover this podcast? What a great survey question to ask people. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:19:02 If you're doing a listener survey, that's really the one must have question on your survey is, where did you first hear about this podcast? Because that really gives you a sense of your marketing efforts, whether paid or otherwise are paying off. If they say they heard another podcast, ask them, what podcast? So you get an idea of who was feeding that. Where are those natural symmetries between what you're doing and the podcast you're advertising on or guesting on, and how does that then connect back to your audience? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:35 Coming up, more with Jeff, including three of my favorite subjects, the role YouTube is playing in podcast discovery. What are some interesting traits about Canadian podcasting and podcasters, and how much do we know about who is listening to our shows? There's more. There's always more on the episode page, including some more fascinating podcast listening at info@soundoffpodcast.com. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:19:59 Transcription of the Soundoff Podcast is powered by the Podcast Super Friends, five podcast producers who get together to discuss podcastin. Sharpen your podcast and creation skills by following the show on the Sound Off Podcast, YouTube, or Facebook page. T Mary-Anne Ivison (Voiceover) 00:19:59 his podcast supports Podcasting 2.0. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now. If you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at newpodcastapps.com. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:31 Somebody pointed this out a few weeks ago and I think it came from Sounds Profitable and it was really asking people, do you really know who your audience is? And I'm here to tell you today, Jeff, that I'm glad we have people like you to go and find out this stuff for brands. I can't say that I have too much of an idea who and I'm very surprised at who might send me a boost or some SATS, for instance, on a Podcast 2.0 app. I'm surprised at the people who give me feedback. And I think it's not like a radio station where you can pick up the phone and start talking to a part of the listenership. It can be a very quiet medium, but I think there are ways now that we are beginning to discover and find out more about who is listening to our shows. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:21:12 Absolutely. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was Tom Webster column or article that he had posted on the Sounds Profitable website and he extolled. What I believe is really important as well is as simple as doing your listener surveys. Yeah, you can hire companies like us, we can help do those listener surveys, but you can also do them yourself if you want to dig that up. Sounds Profitable article, Tom gives you free of charge, some of the great questions you can ask in a listener survey. For example, one that I really liked on that article was, and it's a simple question, is to say, so would you like the podcast to be longer or shorter than it is now? Now not really asking that because you want a sense of how long or the podcast should be or short is it all really depends on the individual and the person. It depends on the podcast and how much time it takes to do that podcast and make that podcast effective. But if they answer, well, I'd like it to be shorter, you then can ask them, oh, so what would you like to take out of the podcast? What do we do that really doesn't do it for you? If they say I want long, what is it that you'd like to hear more of? And it's a great way of just probing that question in a way that if you just ask the question, what would you like to hear more of or less of? Oh, it's all fine, right. But when you ask it that way, it makes the listener think a little bit about their answer and give you a better answer. And one of the advantages of those listener surveys, people who will respond to a call to action on your podcast to do a survey, those are super engaged listeners. And that's a great thing because it helps you understand that core of cores of your audience. The people who are the evangelists who will tell their friends about the podcast and they have an understanding of what is that one thing that your podcast does that no other podcast does, which is one of the most important things that any podcast we can have. What is that clear point of differentiation? Why do some people actually go that much out of their way to listen to your podcast? Hugely important. At the same time there is a danger in doing nothing but paying attention to that core. Of course, if you did nothing but follow what they wanted, you would probably never grow your audience. You might get deeper engagement from the audience you have, but I think you've got to temper that against what is it we can do that still is true to our purpose. So anyhow, that's the only qualifier to doing listener surveys. But to understand how they discovered your podcast, understand what it is that really brings those engaged listeners to your podcast, there's nothing better you can do to. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:54 Understand your audience wherever you get your podcast. One of my favorite questions because I think since about 2018, 2019 on a number of your surveys, and I think it was predominantly even the Canadian podcast Listener survey, people would answer, I get them on YouTube. And YouTube does not technically have podcasts. They've got shows. And some are podcasts if it's Joe Rogan or Dax Shepherd, but constantly. And it comes back all the time on a number of your surveys, Jeff, and that's people are getting their podcasts from YouTube. So how do we explain this to the people who are way too deep in the weeds when it comes to podcasting and the RSS feed? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:24:38 It's part of reality. It's part of what people call a podcast. Just because it's video doesn't mean it's not an on demand content that they like. When we do ask the question on Canadian Podcast Listener about being a podcast listener, we do make sure that you are listening to digital audio files that you can download to listen to later or stream on demand. We don't qualify people who only listen to podcasts or ones they watch on YouTube. There's a large percentage of the population. Their number one go to source for entertainment and information, even on their smart TV is YouTube. It has some great tools for discovery. It's run by Google. They know how to give you more of what you like so you will discover content that you might not see elsewhere. And a lot of that is content that you can then take with you wherever you go when you're not in front of your smart TV or your computer or looking at the screen on your mobile phone. And you will go to an Apple podcast to download it so that you can listen to that later or click it on your Spotify app as a break from listening to music. YouTube is part of the reality of how people consume podcasts. And the industry is really now just kind of figuring out what to do with that was really interesting, actually, at the Podcast Movement Evolutions Conference in Las Vegas back in early March, you could really see from some of the panels how some of the podcasters were really making intelligent use of YouTube. Certainly there's a style of podcast that naturally lends itself towards having a video version, and quite simple, which is the conversation. Podcast, joe Rogan being the ultimate example that you get to see the conversation as well as hear the conversation, and you get to see the people who you get to see Elon Musk smoking pot on Joe Rogan. Those are things that you can do on YouTube and you can watch that on that and it's a simple, natural thing to do. Narrative podcasts is a lot tougher. I mean, if you're doing a true crime podcast, well, how do you tell the story visually without it costing you a fortune for camera work? And all of that involves making a TV show. But there are ways, and there's a lot of podcasters who are really understanding how they can still use YouTube, even in a narrative format. One example that was I wish I could remember who it was, I actually spoke with him after the session. But he had a podcast and he had was a military podcast and he was talking to someone who had done some amazing stunts. So what he did was he extended the brand of his podcast by making that video available on YouTube. So there's opportunities there for brand extensions. Tinkercast who make the podcast kids podcasts, wow in the World, they have content, it's an audio podcast, but they have content that lends itself towards visual and they'll put that visual stuff onto YouTube. So Guy Raz is one of the hosts. There's a cartoon animation of Guy Raz. Well, they'll do things with Guy Raz in animation on YouTube. They'll have games and things that they'll have on YouTube. And what that does is if you're on YouTube, you see wow in the World, you go, wow, this is amazing. Oh, it's a podcast. 29% of all podcast listeners in the last Canadian podcast listener study, and it's the same as the year before, said that they discovered a podcast on YouTube that they then went and listened to later on demand through a standard RSS feed. It expands your audience, really fundamentally, is what it's about. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:28:42 So we moved into that space after years of arguing with you and growing frustrated. Very simply, we created a presence on YouTube by adding some of the episodes. I think about the last hundred episodes. It's just a still image. Now, I could put this recording of you and I up there. We would get to see into your office and your living room and I don't know anybody needs to see anything in my basement. And our choice of microphones and headphones, I'm not sure how exciting that is. I haven't made that jump. Yet where I'm going to upload a copy of you and I looking at each other, but there's a still image up there and I only have another 200 or so episodes to repurpose and put into YouTube. But all that to say I'm a joiner. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:29:29 Yeah, absolutely. It can be as simple as a static image. That again, if your destination for all of your entertainment information is YouTube, and you have content that connects to content they're interested in and it's just available in the static image, well, they may not listen to it at that point, but they go, oh, that's interesting, I want to listen to that podcast. We also ask listeners who do access podcasts on YouTube, we say, when you access a podcast on YouTube, what percentage of the time are you watching and what percentage of the time are you just listening? But 40% of the time, listeners say on average, they say 40% of the time they're listening, not watching. So think about it. And especially conversation podcasts, which are natural for YouTube, they're also the easiest ones to multitask to. If you're working at your computer, you can flip onto YouTube, you can put Joe Rogan or one of the many YouTube podcasts on, listen to it, but minimize the screen. And you're going about your work and you're listening to that podcast. You're not watching it, but it's there. It's right where you are and where you typically go for your content. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:42 I'll just share some of the things that have come across my desk involving YouTube and that's we started to get requests for the women of Ill Repute, which is with Wendy Mesley and Maureen Holloway. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:30:54 Great podcast. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:55 Yeah, they've been in broadcast for so long, especially Wendy who's been on TV for years, and their audience began to ask for YouTube, can we see the interviews that are taking place? So after 25 episodes, we've obliged and now there is a video companion to go along with the audio. The other thing I'm getting here is I'm beginning to get a lot of YouTubers who have done this for a long time, maybe they've done it for a couple of years and they're like, can we convert this into a podcast? So it's going the other way as well? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:31:27 Absolutely, yeah. Because if you're a YouTube creator and you're missing the opportunity of people listening to your podcast, of accessing your content when their eyes are busy, but their mind is free when they're somewhere where they can't actually watch it, but they can listen to it. What better way to do that than putting it on out as a podcast or an RSS feed that someone can listen to? Again, there's not cannibalized audience, it just expands the audience, a potential audience. And I think you're from Montreal originally, so Quebec is a really interesting kind of petri dish for culture, always has been. Quebec is a population of 6 million, 8 million people, most of whom speak French. We're at about 75, 80% being Francophone podcast. Listening in Quebec has always been lower than it is in the rest of Canada. The reason for that has traditionally been that there just wasn't that much content available. They don't want to listen to podcasts from France. It's a tiny percentage of podcasts that they would consume. Those who do consume podcasts, no, they'll consume other Canadian podcasts or actually more typically, American podcasts. But more and more they are listening to French Canadian podcasts. That's what they're interested in listening to. But again, it's a small market. So if you're a Francophone podcaster in Quebec, you can't just have a podcast. You've got to be multimedia. And Quebec entertainers are brilliant at doing that anyhow. They've always been on television, on radio, and doing live shows. Comedians in Quebec in particular. So taken to creating your own content, they are on YouTube. Almost all of the top French Canadian podcasts are on YouTube, as well as being podcasts that have an audience with downloads as well. Mike Ward is one example. Sexoral, which is kind of the French version of Color Daddy, is also a very big podcast. In fact, in the last Canadian podcast listener study, the number two and number three podcasts were Mike Ward and Sex or Al, Joe Rogan number one. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:33:36 Mike Ward has a huge YouTube presence. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:33:39 His reach in Quebec is bigger than Joe Rogan is anywhere else. But a lot of it is there's just not that many other podcasts that they can listen to french Canadian podcasts. They aren't dealing with a universe of 4 million podcasts. They're dealing with a universe of a few hundred podcasts to choose from. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:33:59 Mike Ward sold out the Bell Center. Not a lot of people made a big deal about that, but that's a big deal. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:34:07 I wasn't aware of that. That's huge. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:34:09 Also, when I look at Canada and you're the person here who can it's not just Quebec, by the way, where it's like that. Whether it's podcasts that I work with, like Dean Blondell or women of Ill repute, a lot of that listening is very Ontario centric. It's very GTA, it's very horseshoe. But then you go out to Alberta, and the minute we started to make podcasts that were specific to Alberta, we saw big numbers come in. So I'm looking at the breakdown with Nate Pike, Carrie Doll, who was a former CTV anchor who does a podcast. These are all very big Alberta shows. I think when we talk about a Canadian podcast, we think about something that's just going to go from coast to coast and sea to sea, but that's not the case. It's fairly regional with what we listen to. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:34:57 Yeah, I think you talk about opportunities for podcasts going forward. There is still tremendous opportunity for local regional podcasts that do reflect particular region. And that's kind of what makes them unique, is they do something that may be done elsewhere, but they do it specific to their region and to the culture and the interests of that area as well. I mean, the challenge there is just how do you even with a very popular podcast in some of those areas, it's still hard to have enough audience to make it fly on its own. You really need to be part of a network where you can take advantage of the opportunity, the cross promotion opportunities, but also the opportunity of having someone out there helping to sell advertising for your podcast as well as the other podcasts in the network. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:35:47 Is podcasting a mass medium now? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:35:49 I think it's getting awfully close to it, yeah. We work now with sounds profitable in the US. We're actually really pleased to be selected as a research partner. So the first study we had a chance to do, we'll be doing quarterly research studies with Sounds Profitable going forward. And our first study was the medium moves the message. Tom Webster has a webinar of that. And if you do get the chance to watch that webinar, you should, because it did reveal a lot of really interesting things about podcasting as an advertising medium. One of those things was just seeing how when you compare podcasting to TV and radio and recognizing that linear TV, linear radio is getting older, podcasting is younger, and it's because it's an on demand medium. And look at 18 to 34 year olds who listen to podcasting. The past week, 50% of Americans say that they listen. 18 to 34 say they listen to podcasts. That wasn't far behind either television or even radio for that matter. Radio is at 59% and television at just 54%. So suddenly we start looking at that and also see that that podcast audience is in fact an exclusive audience for a large part of that audience. They don't listen to linear radio. They don't watch linear TV. That if you are trying to reach 18 to 34 as part of your buy, let alone as your core demographic, then podcasting does make sense as a medium to add to that mix. Buying podcasting across, to take advantage of all of that reach with all of those podcasts still has a little ways to go. But I think these are things that technology and innovation will help to solve as well, so that it becomes as easy to reach that podcast audience that you're looking for as it is television radio. And even then, it's getting so much better. Measurement is better, delivery is better than it was. I mean, if you just look back five or six years, it's dramatically improved. We start looking at it that way. If TV and radio are mass media, well, podcasting is getting pretty close to that and podcast audience is growing. Linear TV, linear radio, well, they're struggling. It's a change, a shift in audience priorities. They want to be able to access their content on their own schedule. TV faces the same challenges with streaming video, obviously, Netflix and everything else. And really, what is podcasting? It's simply the same thing applied to audio medium. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:38:36 Can you give me one unique stat that is purely Canadian as it pertains to podcasting? One that if you met somebody from any other country, did you know that Canadians when it comes to podcasting? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:38:50 So one of the questions we ask in Canadian podcast listener is asking podcast listeners to say, of all the podcasts you listen to, how much of that podcasting is to US. Podcasts, to Canadian podcasts, to podcasts from Britain, from France, or from elsewhere? 44 on average. Canadian podcast listeners say that 44% of the podcasts they listen to are Canadian. That was 38% four years ago, and it's gone up to 44%. It's getting awfully close to the percentage that they're listening to us. I think it's 48% for us, 44% for Canada. Imagine if it was like that for radio and music. There's no Canadian content quotas here for podcasting. But we're still at a situation where listeners say they are spending 44% of the time that they spend listen to podcasts or spent listening to Canadian podcasts. So there's something going on here. There's some good podcasts happening in Canada. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:39:52 Yeah. Have you let the people in the Senate and Parliament know about this as they're writing C-11? Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:39:57 Well, the Department of Heritage has been a subscriber to Canadian podcast Listener. They weren't this year. This is kind of a government thing. They go on one year off one year. So they have seen those numbers. They haven't seen that latest number. And even doing a presentation, even that, I knew it got their attention and they made the connection themselves. Oh, wow. Without even trying. It's happening naturally. So that's very encouraging. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:40:24 Well, I hope Pablo is listening to this right now. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:40:26 Hello, Pablo. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:40:28 Shout out to Pablo Rodriguez in the Heritage Department. Jeff, thanks so much for being on the show. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing all your insights. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:40:38 Well, thank you very much for letting me on the show. To have a chance to chat and catch up, really enjoy the conversations and look forward to seeing you. Will you be in Denver for Podcast Movement even sooner? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:40:52 I'll see you in Toronto for radio days, North America, of course. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:40:56 See you then. June 6 to 8. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:40:58 I'll be there. Jeff Vidler (Guest) 00:40:59 Wonderful. Thank you, Matt. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:41:00 The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill, produced by Evan Surminski, edited by Chloe Emond-Lane. Social media by Aidan Glassy. Another great creation from the Sound Off media company. There's always more at soundoffpodcast.com.

Vinnie Taylor is one half of Stingray's morning show on Real Country 95.5 in Red Deer, Alberta. His career has spanned the 80's to now. We have heard from his co-host Randi Chase on two separate occasions on this show, and thought it was about time we heard from the other half of the show. In this episode you will hear how Vinnie was raised on 630 CHED... and started his radio career in Weyburn, Saskatchewan. We also heard about his time working with Peppermint Patti (morning show co-host) and Gayle Zarbatany (program Director) at Kiss in Calgary; and the unique format that station had. And what's it like to work on a morning show... with a co-host you get along with... that broadcasts clean across Alberta? So this is troubling. I did not discuss AI or CHAT GPT or any of that other stuff with Vinnie. I've actually already said my piece about it and everyone will discover its value and limitations in due time. Here's what CHAT GPT had to say about Vinnie. (Read the last line... unreal) TRANSCRIPTION Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:00:02 The Sound Off Podcast. The show about podcast and broadcast starts now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:13 You know what, it seems highly inappropriate that we would have Randi Chase on the show- twice- before we had her co-host Vinnie Taylor on. Vinnie Taylor has been in Red Deer doing morning radio for over a decade now. He's humble, kind, friendly, and if you're looking for references, look no further than his co host, Randi Chase. Randi Chase (Clip) 00:00:13 Vinnie and I, when I first talked to you, we just kind of started the show and it was always great. Like, we always had really good chemistry and got along really well. But now he's just like it feels like he's family to me. We've never had a fight, not one fight. And we've been doing mornings for five years in January. So I'm pretty proud of our relationship. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:53 I feel like I know Vinnie, although I've never met Vinnie because I listen to the show. And so Vinnie doesn't know this, but I know Vinnie. He's my best friend. Randi Chase (Clip) 00:01:02 Oh, he's going to be so happy. You should invite him on the podcast sometimes, because when I said I was coming on your podcast, he was like, oh, you know, I've never been asked. I was like, oh, he'll ask you after this. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:13 So I did. Now, Vinnie Taylor joins me from the Stingray Studios in Red Deer, Alberta. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:01:19 There's no rules in the podcast game, correct? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:22 They say that there's no rules, but there are rules and the listeners make them up. And when they get bored, they just stop listening and you lose. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:01:29 Sounds like radio. It is. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:31 It's kind of the same in that sense. Right, Vinnie, roll it right back to the beginning for me. What was your first radio job? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:01:40 My very first radio job was in Weyburn, Saskatchewan, an AM radio station. Now, you got to think back. This is way before there was any technology that we have today. So there were no computers, there was no internet, there were no websites, none of that stuff. Everything we did was played records, 45s, albums. All our commercials were on carts. We had religious programming at night on reel to reel, and all our production was done on reel to reel. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:10 Are you going to put a year on that? Because I'll give it about 1982? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:02:17 1983. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:18 I was off by one year. What radio station were you raised on? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:02:20 I went to high school in Edmonton. So this is how I actually got into radio, taking a work experience program, my high school. And they said, pick two jobs. We'll set you up with two jobs, get to go there and then you get school credit for it easier than going to school. So I worked at a van conversion shop because at the time, back in the day, everybody had pimped out vans. And then I got to work at 630 CHED, kind of an intern deal. And I got to work with everybody from Rob Christie to Jungle Jay and Chuck Chandler, all those guys, and I thought, this is the coolest job ever. This is what I want to do. When I got out of high school, I enrolled in the infamous Columbia School of Broadcasting. And after I graduated from there, because I didn't graduate from high school, I Actually got into radio. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:07 Weyburn, Saskatchewan 1983. It's almost the peak of the top 40 in music era, because every record is great. Even the country records were great at that point. So what were you playing and what was your shift? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:03:24 I was working evenings at the time and was playing everything from Journey to the Rolling Stones. The big station, though, at the time in Saskatchewan was, of course, CHAB. 800 CHAB. That's the one that everybody wanted to go work at. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:39 I find it amazing that the people who do go start in Saskatchewan. It's Weyburn, it's Rosetown Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:03:39 Estevan. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:39 Estevan is another one. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:03:49 Prince Albert. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:50 Yeah, you can do the border thing. You can head out to Lloyd, but yeah, I've spoken to a few people on this podcast who have had great success getting their shows, getting their careers started, and launched in Saskatchewan. I think a few weeks ago, we had Bryn Griffiths on, and he was talking about his time in Saskatchewan. And how long did you last in Saskatchewan? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:04:15 I worked Weyburn for about a year and a half, Rosetown for a year and a half, and then I got a big break. I got to work at 65 CKLM in Saskatoon. It was a super station back then, and I got a chance to work with my heroes friend, Penny murphy. We were doing the morning show at that time. I read Allen was doing middays. I ended up doing drive, and then got transferred to Calgary back in, I guess the 90s and worked there for a decade. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:39 And I was just thinking in my head when you were saying, oh, Saskatchewan superstition, I was about ready to go C-K-O-M because those were the first Saskatchewan call letters that came to my mind when you said everybody wanted to work at a big station. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:04:54 That was so much fun. And that's when I started working with Gayle Zarbatany. I worked with her for probably 14 years in Rawlco, and one of the best program directors. She was awesome. She brought me into Calgary, and that's when I worked with my very first co host. Had to change my name, of course, because her name was Angela Knight. They wanted me to go by Michael Day, so it was the day and night show. Brilliant, right? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:22 I like it. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:05:23 Angela right now, actually is doing the morning show in Calgary at CBC. Very successful. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:31 And was that a morning show? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:05:32 No, that was afternoon drive. A couple of years into that, they got the license for an FM station, and they launched Kiss FM 96.9, which at the time was one of the very first stations across the country that mixed music together. So we were the only station that played a mixture of pop, rock and country. So you go, like, from the Goo Goo Dolls into Garth Brooks, for example, that kind of stuff. It was like 1997 when they launched that station and got to work with Jerry Steen. Karen Daniels were doing the Morning Show. The late Tim Kilpatrick. Big Daddy Don Ritchie was doing middays. I was doing drive. And then a year after that station launched, a legend came into my life, and that would be Peppermint Patty. She moved from Montreal to Calgary, and she started doing stuff on my show and we ended up doing the morning show for about a year before they sold the station. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:21 Now, I do remember that period, and I remember when the station launched with great fanfare. And I think we need to remind people about what it was like in the 90s and how it was possible in a place like Calgary to play Shania Twain, Alanis Morrissette, Goo Goo Dolls and have a very diverse playlist of both pop and pop country. And it really was the birth of the pop country era. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:06:48 Yeah. And it also kind of was, I guess you could say, a precursor to what would become the Jack FM format later down the road. Right. Playing what we want almost kind of the same thing. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:59 And I think back to Gayle Zarbatany and all the work that she put into that station, and I just remember keeping my eye on it and just being fascinated by the whole thing, because that period of the 90s was the pop was just phenomenal at that time. The Nsyncs and the mother daughter, they could listen to the same music on the way to school. And then a station like Kiss would be on there and would really be the antithesis to CJAY 92, which is what you were up against Gerry Forbes. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:07:29 Hard to go up against a guy like Gerry Forbes. I love Gerry. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:07:32 Well, no one survived. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:07:34 No, of course not. That station did very well for about a year and a half. KISS, FM 96.9, and then Power signed on. And that was kind of the downfall of the station. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:07:44 Yeah somebody came in and ate part of your lunch. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:07:46 Yes, exactly. And then Rogers came in and bought the station from Rolco, and I ended up getting let go. So then I went back to Saskatchewan and worked in Regina 2000 at Z99, CC and Lorie. And then they got licensed for another FM station. So I got to be part of another launch of Rock 94, which was very cool. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:08:11 I want to talk for a moment about Peppermint Patty because she had just been in Montreal and she had been in a tumultuous situation with Morning Show,Terry DiMonte left, and then John Derringer came in. And then there was another incarnation, I think, and she'd been through a lot of co hosts. And I do remember at that time, because I was working up in Edmonton, that I would visit her. And in 97, I did go down and visit her, and I think she was a little bit shocked at just how much fun it was to work with you. But I thought it was great that she got to go work in an environment that was not toxic, because I think post Terry DiMonte, for her, the environment at CHOM was quite toxic. And for her to go and work with you, and it was a joy every day. And I know that she really enjoyed that period of working with you. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:08:57 We had a ton of fun, a lot of laughs, and I learned a lot from her because she's such funny, crazy, outrageous, just a real person. And she taught me a lot. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:10 What she teach you? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:09:11 Just how to open up a little bit more and not be such a radio guy. You know what I mean? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:20 Yeah. Lay that personality on the line. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:09:23 Yeah. Just try to be a little bit more. So much. Just doing the steps of announcing. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:29 And how did you get up to Red Deer? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:09:31 Red Deer? Well, I was working in Victoria at JACK FM. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:36 Well, how'd you get to Victoria? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:09:38 When I was in Regina, I lost my job in 2005, moved back to Calgary, and that didn't work out very well for me. And then I got a call from Gord Edlin in Victoria, and he was looking for somebody to drive. So I got to work there with AJ and Crash. A lot of great, talented people there as well. They went through a bunch of different stuff, not format change wise, but they let a bunch of people go because they only wanted to do a morning show and then just have imaging throughout the day. So I lost my gig there. And then I got a call from Darryl Holine, who was opening up a station in Red Deer, and my kids were living in Cochrane at the time, and I thought, Perfect. Moved to Red Deer and we signed on 100.7. The river has gone through a couple of changes in CRUZ FM. I worked there when there was CRUZ, and then I kind of left and had an opportunity to come to real country. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:10:28 At which point you were then paired with Randi. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:10:31 Yes. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:10:32 What's it like to work with Randi? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:10:35 Insane. Not going to lie to you. She's one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life, probably. I've worked with a lot of people. She's probably the best storyteller that I've ever met, and the weirdest things happen to her each and every day. She's one of the most open people I've ever worked for. Nothing is off limits. She'll talk about everything that happens in her life, whether it's tragic, whether it's good, whether it's funny. She's just so easy to work with. And we didn't know each other. Met at a Boston Pizza in Sylvan Lake at lunch and had a lot of laughs. And I thought, this is going to be good. And then we just hit the ground running, and it's been amazing ever since. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:14 So once again, you're working with somebody who had pivoted from a toxic work environment, and here you are with Randi, and the whole thing feels very much rejuvenated for her because I've had her twice on this podcast, and she speaks glowingly with you. And the second time I brought her on, she goes, why aren't you talking to Vinnie yet? Why are you bringing me back? And she's right, I should have had you on sometime in the in between time. But I'm glad we get to sit down and have this conversation because I think as technology goes forward, you've really rolled with it. So we think back to the beginning of what we were talking about in 1983, and there's nothing in the studio except for a bunch 45s and carts. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:11:57 And every hour you go check the teletype, right? Yeah. For the stories that were coming in for news and sports, and that was it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:04 Did you have to peel the paper and then sort - Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:12:04 Yes. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:04 The BN newswire. Did you ever have to time out to the top of the hour for BN news? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:12:12 Every hour. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:13 And now your timing is impeccable and no one cares. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:12:16 Nobody cares. It's a different time. It's a different world, Matt. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:21 Well, I'm looking at the studio you're in. It's got a microphone and that's it. But if we rolled this back 40 years, the place would just be like carts and records and CDs and everything, right? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:12:31 Pretty much, yeah. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:33 What do you think of the technology change, though, in the last, like, five years? Because it's changed more in the last five years than I think any other time. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:12:40 I mean, there's good parts about it and there's bad parts about it. The bad parts about it are it's really tough to develop any new talent when there's no jobs anywhere. Everything is voice tracked across the country. Multiple shows, multiple stations. So you're not really giving the kids coming out of school a chance to learn the craft and grow. So down the road, companies are going to go where's all the talent, giving them an opportunity to grow and learn. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:09 In just a second. More with Vinnie. He says he's not into stuff, but trust me, he is. And what's it like to broadcast clear across Alberta. There's more. There's always more on the episode page, including a failed attempt to use artificial intelligence to write this episode. Hey radio, don't worry, AI is only as good as the programmers who make it. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:13:31 Transcription of the Soundoff Podcast is powered by the Podcast Super Friends, five podcast producers who get together to discuss podcasting. Sharpen your podcast and creation skills by following the show on the Soundoff Podcast, YouTube, or Facebook page. Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover) 00:13:31 This Podcast supports Podcasting 2.0. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now, if you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at newpodcastapps.com. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:31 You've worked at a station that played both country and pop music and now you're doing a morning show that appears on stations that do both country and pop music. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:14:13 I know, weird, right? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:15 I mean, you think about the technological change. If I told you this about 20 years ago, you'd never guessed that you'd be able to do it. So how do you approach that every morning? And I think when this was first presented to you, what did you think? Oh, I'm going to be on both country and a traditional pop station. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:14:29 I mean, it was a challenge at first because you're trying to think to yourself, content wise, is this going to work on both stations for both audiences? But the stuff that we do is all real life stuff and it actually works at the end of the day. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:47 I think the term that I've heard before is that your content is agnostic. Did you ever know that your content was agnostic? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:14:55 I've never heard that term before, but thank you. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:58 Do you think it'll be used in the imaging tomorrow? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:14:58 Let's hope. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:58 When Randi comes to you with something that is going to be real, it's going to be one of those moments, could make you laugh, could make you cry. Is there anything that is a no go where it might be too much for the both of you to cope with? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:15:13 No, we've never had that situation rise where it's like, I don't know if we should do this or not. We always just go with our gut feeling and we will talk about it because we can have an impact on one person that's listening, that maybe that's happened to, and our job is done at the end of the day, very open about a lot of different things on the show. Randi has gone through a lot of different struggles, shared them all on the air, and she's allowed me to open up about a lot of different stuff that I've never shared on the air before. Grew up in a terrible household, domestic violence, sexual abuse, never even thought I'd bring that up on the air before, but I have, and that's helped me and hopefully it's helped other people as well. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:15:59 And I think ten years ago, even we probably wouldn't have gone there or it would have been difficult to do. But it's amazing when somebody else comes into the show or into the room, opens up about something, and then it sort of allows for everyone else around to also open up and then I'm guessing the listeners now will open up to you as well. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:16:18 Yeah, we do get the calls from the people who said, I know exactly what you're going through, or just like a thank you now I feel like I can share my story type of thing. And we do a lot of work with various organizations in town. I think it's very important, wherever you're working have to really get involved in the community. Do as much volunteer work as possible. Tie yourself to as many organizations as possible, MC, all that stuff. You are part of the community. That's part of your gig. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:16:47 That day when you opened up and you were truly honest with the audience about traumatic stuff that had happened in the past. And the show is over, and you walk outside and maybe you saw the sun, maybe you saw the snow or whatever it was outside the station that day. How deep of an exhale was it? And what did it feel like? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:17:03 Oh, it was huge. I mean, like, a giant weight was lifted off my shoulder, and it was very emotional at the time. I mean, I broke up on the air, and Randi was crying on the air. I was crying. And there's been many moments like that that are very real. That's what I love about our show, is we can go from one extreme to the other, from laughter to crying, and all the emotions are there every day. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:17:30 I think maybe in the past, it might have been like a show prep service. You might have watched some TV. It was a little bit easy back in the do your show prep, because we would just video we would videotape seinfeld, maybe Roseanne, catch up, watch Entertainment Tonight, look at The Wire to see what had come in on a show prep service. Hopefully, the other station in town didn't have the same show prep service. And, okay, so what's it like today? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:17:56 Today is totally different. I mean, our show prep is every night we send each other prep. Could be something that happened to us, could be a dream that Randi had, for example. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:05 One of the things that Randi warned me about is that you're not technically savvy, which was proved today by Cliff, who came in to fix everything before we got started. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:18:17 Shout out to Cliff the engineer. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:19 What social media platforms are you comfortable with, and which ones are you not? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:18:24 I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram, I'm on the Facebook, and I'm also on the Snapchat, but I never go on Snapchat. I don't even know why I have that. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:35 I didn't even know that was still going. I never went on that. I drew the line at Snapchat. Do you guys have any boundaries when it comes to communication? Like, if somebody sees something on television at night or an event or sending show prep to one another, is there any downtime for you? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:18:49 There's always downtime, but, I mean, we're always looking for content all the time. More ridiculous, the better our world anyways. We just want to be entertaining. We want to have fun, make people laugh, and just have a good time. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:03 How many stations are you on? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:19:05 15. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:06 What streaming services do you subscribe to each month? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:19:09 As in television streaming services? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:11 Do you have Netflix? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:19:12 I got the Netflix. That's the only one I have. Oh, I got Paramount and that's about it. I watch regular TV and I PVR everything, okay? I'm old school, Matt. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:21 I think it's great that you PVR everything. It's the way it should be. You can just sort of skip through it. I'll give you a really bad hack. I do show prep for the show that I don't have, and every day I PVR Inside Edition, and it is just complete junk of the best stuff. I can get show prep done in my head in four minutes of whatever went viral, of whatever murder is being covered, whatever court trial is being covered. It's all given to me in a very short dose. And then I'm completely prepared for the show that I just don't have. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:19:56 Yeah, that's a totally new ballgame now, too, being a program director. It's not like the old days when you were a program director and you did everything and you came up with the ideas and everything else. Nowadays, I hate to say it, but you're more of an administrative assistant. All you're doing is picking music for stations, attending meetings and sending out emails. Back in the day, you're having air checks with your staff and doing all kinds of stuff. That doesn't happen very often anymore. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:22 When was the last time you guys had a pizza party? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:20:25 Actually, today. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:27 Isn't it great to know that pizza parties and pizza lunches at radio stations just will never die? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:20:33 No, they won't. Mind you, our staff is fairly small compared to when I first started here. It's probably cut in half easily. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:40 A place like Red Deer, I look at the work you do now, being clear across Alberta on a lot of stations, that looks like a really enviable job. Unlike getting up and doing mornings for one radio station in Edmonton. Like to have the whole province at your fingertips. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:20:58 I never thought in a million years that anything like that would even happen. But it's hard to get to wrap your head around it. It's cool. And I love living where I'm living. Like, this is the end of line for me, Matt. I'm not going to go anywhere, going to go to any big cities. I'm done mold, getting to the end of the road. I've worked in Calgary, some bigger markets, but this is where I love being. I love the community. The people are amazing here and it's just nice and relaxing. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:21:29 I guess the one deficit to what you're doing in Red Deer is that you being an Edmonton guy. It would be having to put up with Flames fans. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:21:37 Here's the thing, I'm a Flames fan. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:21:41 Well, you'll have to explain that. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:21:43 I went to high school in Edmonton, junior high in Calgary, so I lived in both cities. Kind of thing. And then majority of my work was done in Calgary. I never actually worked at a radio station in Edmonton, but I got the opportunity Calgary for over a decade, and that's when I became a huge Flames fan and a Stamps fan. So being in the middle is kind of tough because you got to put up with the Oiler fans. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:22:05 So you went to high school in Edmonton, you went to high school in Calgary, junior high in Calgary, junior high in Calgary. And now you are clear across Alberta. I would say that you've landed in the perfect spot because you're not a stranger to both cities and you pretty much know the province like the back of your hand. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:22:27 Yeah, and my kids live in Calgary now, which is great. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:22:30 Do you ski? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:22:32 Back when I was living in Calgary, we had a ski team at the radio station. We were out every weekend, out lake, weeds, sunshine and the kiska. A lot of fun. But I haven't skied in probably 20 years. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:22:42 Now I'm going to ask you to do something. I'm going to ask you the most complicated question. I'm going to ask you the most difficult question, because we couldn't have imagined that ten years ago that you would be hosting a morning show on so many stations across Alberta. What do you think the next evolution is for the show you are doing? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:23:03 Worldwide maybe, I don't know, cross Canada, I guess would be the next thing? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:10 Right so that would be another time zone. And so you'd have to get up like in the middle of the night to go and do that in the Maritimes. I don't think we would ask that of you, though, by the way. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:23:19 Oh, thanks. I appreciate that because I wouldn't do it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:22 Of course not. Absolutely not. Vinnie, did I miss anything on this show? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:23:28 I don't think so. I just wanted to say though, that I appreciate you having me on the show and I also wanted to thank all the people that I've worked with the past 39 plus years. I always seem to surround myself with extremely talented people, brought out the best in me. So if it hadn't been for them, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:48 And you realize that you brought out the best in others as well, right? Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:23:51 I don't know about that. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:53 Come on, give yourself a little credit. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:23:55 All right, maybe. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:57 Vinnie, thanks so much for being on the podcast. I super appreciate it. Vinnie Taylor (Guest) 00:24:00 You're very welcome. Thank you for having me. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:24:03 The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill, produced by Evan Surminsky, edited by Chloe Emond-Lane. Social media by Aidan Glassey. Another great creation from the Soundoff Media Company. There's always more at http://soundoffpodcast.com.

Randi Chase epitomizes the lyric in the WKRP theme song, "Town to Town; Up and Down the Dial." The lyric conjures up images of jocks, successful or fired, who shuffle on to the next gig with a new town and call letters. Randi worked in 6 of Canada's top 10 markets before turning 30. After taking a year off to find out what happens when you take the radio out of Randi, she is back on air and having fun with in her favourite province with Vinnie Taylor on Newcap's Real Country 95.5. Randi is an enthusiastic dog-lover and country music buff who as dar as we can tell is nearly in love with Garth Brooks. She's spent the bulk of her career in radio, working with stations like KISS 92.5 and 104.5 CHUM in Toronto, as a Bell Media morning show host in Calgary, with KISS 104.9, or most recently with Newcap Radio in Red Deer. I had the chance to work with Randi in Montreal and never stopped following her career as it progressively took her west. If it sounds like two old friends catching up, it's because that's exactly what this episode is. This episode is powered by NLogic, Canada's leading provider of audience analysis tools and data for the TV and radio broadcast industry, media agencies, advertisers and many other clients large and small. Just by visiting our sponsors you support the podcast. A thanks to the people who support the show each week and allow it arrive on your phones for free. The CHR Prep Service - Click to get a free trial. Megatrax - Licensed Music for your radio station or podcast production company. Transcription: Matt Cundill 00:00:00 What's your name? Randi Chase 00:00:02 Randi. Matt Cundill 00:00:03 How do we find you? What do we call you? How many how many radio names have you had? Randi Chase 00:00:08 Just Randi. Randi's been my name on air since I'm almost 19 years old. I'm 34. Matt Cundill 00:00:14 So for the purposes of this podcast, how do we market you and keep you on brand? Randi Chase 00:00:19 Randi Chase, Matt. Amanda Logan 00:00:25 This is the podcast Sound Off Podcast with Matt Cundill. Matt Cundill 00:00:30 This week, I speak with Randi Chase from Real Country 95 Five in Red Deer, Alberta. Randi hosts the show along with Vinnie Taylor, and the show feels like an open book. Just wait, I've got some audio exhibits to share, too. Randi Chase and I go back, not all the way back, just back to Montreal. She moved to Montreal to work at what was then mixed 96 and her show was solid. If there was ever a Canadian who could live up to the WKRP in Cincinnati theme song of Town to Town and up and down the dial, it was Randi. She got progressively better in each market she moved to and as you guessed it, the stakes got higher. Then a combination of events led to her hitting the reset button. She took a year off and then resurfaced in Red Deer, located on highway 2, halfway between Edmonton and Calgary in Canada's conservative heartland. Every morning, those people get served up a strong dose of real life for breakfast. Randi Chase 00:01:29 Yeah I got rejected on Valentine's Day dance. I was at a dance at school. We had like a Valentine's Day fun, like pink hearts everywhere. And I was in grade six, I was new to the school and I asked a boy, David, to dance with me because everybody was dancing. All my girlfriends were dancing with somebody and he said no. He later on told me it's because I had a mustache. Vinnie Taylor 00:01:49 I know, I'm sorry for laughing. Randi Chase 00:01:51 I'm French Canadian. What do you want for me? Amanda Logan 00:01:52 I have dark hair. And he also then told people I had sideburns. Vinnie Taylor 00:01:57 Wow. Amanda Logan 00:01:58 I was so upset. Do you know what I did that day when I found out? Vinnie Taylor 00:02:00 Shaved. Randi Chase 00:02:01 No. I was going to shave. That's a true story. I wanted to shave my mustache off and my mom was like, no, you can't do that. It'll grow in thicker. Right, right. So we looked into this thing called Jolin. Have you ever heard Jolin? No, I haven't said that probably since I was in grade eight. It's a bleach for hair. Matt Cundill 00:02:20 Okay, so get rid of it., so it doesn't come back anymore? Randi Chase 00:02:22 Oh, no, I came back. Amanda Logan 00:02:23 It was just blonde. Vinnie Taylor 00:02:25 Here's the good news with that story. You can actually join me for Movember this year. Drake Donovan 00:02:31 Join us for all the fun weekday mornings, 5:30 to 10, the Real Wake Up with Vinnie and Randi, real country 95 Five. Matt Cundill 00:02:38 Randi Chase joins me from Sylvan Lake, Alberta. Hey, you know what this is episode 99. Have you ever worked at a station that is located at 99 on the frequency dial? Randi Chase 00:02:51 I really have to think about this. Hold on. I have to go back in my head and do like, a map of all of them in my head. So I had no, never. Matt Cundill 00:03:08 Okay, so what cities have you worked in because you've worked in a bunch? Randi Chase 00:03:14 I like how you said that you've worked in a bunch. I started actually radio in grade ten at Kiss Toronto. And it started because I started calling in all the time just to request a song and obviously hear my name on the radio, hear my voice on the radio. I thought it was so cool. My friends used to say that I'd sit in the closet at parties to distract the noise so I could call the radio station. What a loser. But I used to do that. And then the boss there, Julie Adam, who's still the big boss, Juliet, Kiss and see at Jeffrey. She heard me on the radio and she said to Pepper at the time Pepper, was doing an evening show there Pepper of Pepper and Dylan, of course, who's that girl that always called in, and he's like, oh, that's Randi. Okay. She said, you should want to volunteer here. So then that's the story. I started volunteering when I was about 15, until I was about 19, and I worked for free for four years. And then they flipped into Jack and I ended up going to school in Ottawa. So I'd say I kind of started in Toronto. Not on air, but I started in Toronto, I went to school and I became an on-air person in Ottawa. Then from Ottawa I went to Montreal and from Montreal I went to Edmonton to The Bounce. So, Montreal, I did Mix 96 where you were. Ottawa, I did Hot 89. Nine. And then from the bounce in Edmonton, I went back to Toronto and I did Middays at Kiss Toronto, where I interned originally, which was really cool. And then I got a call to go to CHUM FM in Toronto. So I went there. And then I told CHUM I wanted to do mornings. That was my ultimate goal. So David Corey made it happen nine months after starting the evening show. I went to Calgary to do mornings for Cool and then the Kid Carson show in Vancouver for four and a half years doing mornings. And now I took a year off between that. I didn't really know if I want to do radio anymore, to be honest. I think we all go through that moment in radio. Matt Cundill 00:05:13 And where do you work now? Randi Chase 00:05:14 I'm doing a morning show. Real Country in 95. Five in Red Deer, Alberta. Matt Cundill 00:05:19 So what would you say to anybody who wanted to get into the radio business and what would you say about mobility? Because you've logged a lot of cities and that's not a reflection of anything other than you're willing to move, because a lot of people are not willing to move. Randi Chase 00:05:35 Yeah, and you know what? Truthfully, I've been asked, but for instance, by Newcap, the people I'm working for now, they asked me, could you just elaborate why you've moved so much? Because they're a company that I find a lot of people stay in Newcap. It's a really good company, whereas a lot of other companies, a lot of people are moving around constantly, which is fine if that's what you want to do. But I told them, I'm like, I've never been fired. It wasn't because I was getting fired and having to start over. It was kind of just an opportunity would present itself to me and I felt I was single, I had no kids. Yes, I'm going to move and go up the chain if I could. And how many times do you get to move around the country like that? It's a pretty cool opportunity, to be honest. However, I was fired from Vancouver to sleep. Matt Cundill 00:06:17 Oh, that's a well documented piece of information. Randi Chase 00:06:21 I'm not going to deny that, and. Matt Cundill 00:06:23 I will ask about it at some. Randi Chase 00:06:25 Point, but that was a well documented exit. Yes, it was. Matt Cundill 00:06:28 You have a favorite city? Randi Chase 00:06:30 Everyone asks me that. I literally and I'm not just saying that to be like PC, because I'm not really PC. Every single city I've lived in, I have a different thing about it I love. I have never had a city I hated, ever. I've never despised somewhere I've lived. So I will say - Matt Cundill 00:06:50 Let's go through each one, but what you like. Okay, so I'll call the city out. Let's start with Ottawa. Randi Chase 00:06:55 First of all, I love the market area. I love the quaintness of Ottawa. I love how quiet it is, but still how fun it is. I also think it's so clean. Matt Cundill 00:07:05 Montreal. Randi Chase 00:07:06 Oh, that's a lot of the food because I was raised in Montreal to like grade nine, so it feels a little homey for me. My aunts and uncles are all there and I love the food, I love the nightlife, and I love the hours that everything is open till Calgary. The people in Calgary are so great. They're so friendly. I love how transient Calgary is. Everyone's from somewhere. So people are always willing to make friends because they're not from there. Matt Cundill 00:07:34 Edmonton. Randi Chase 00:07:36 Edmonton. Same thing about the friendliness. It's so different than Calgary, though, edmonton. I loved the closeness, the friends I made in Edmonton. I made friends in Edmonton like no other city, I think. And I like White Ave in Edmonton. Matt Cundill 00:07:48 Toronto. Randi Chase 00:07:50 Toronto. Oh my gosh, Toronto is an amazing city. There's so much to do at all hours of the night. It's beautiful. Drake is from Toronto, so that's why I like it. I'm just joking. It's where my family lives. I mean, I consider Toronto home. Matt Cundill 00:08:04 Vancouver. Randi Chase 00:08:05 Oh, the beauty. Vancouver, hands down. I think is one of the most beautiful cities in the whole world. Matt Cundill 00:08:11 Red Deer. Randi Chase 00:08:12 Red Deer. So I live in Sylvan Lake, which is about 20 minutes outside of Red Deer. Matt Cundill 00:08:17 Sylvan lake say. Randi Chase 00:08:18 Sylvan Lake. Red Deer I work in, so I don't want to give you I don't really know a lot about it yet. Sylvan Lake. I'm obsessed with Sylvan Lake. We live right near the lake. It's a quaint little town. Have you seen, like, a Hallmark movie when they have one of those towns when the girl moves to town and meets a guy? That's what this town is. It's so quaint, and there's like everything you need all in one town. And the people are so giving here. It's straight out of a movie. So we're having a lot of fun. We love it. Matt Cundill 00:08:45 And you haven't worked in Winnipeg or the Maritimes, is that correct? Randi Chase 00:08:48 No, I've been to the Maritimes for vacation, and I've never been to Winnipeg in general. I've heard Winnipeg has an awesome music scene and an awesome art scene in the summer. Matt Cundill 00:08:59 If you want to come here, I got space in the house. Yes, of course you can stay here. Randi Chase 00:09:04 Okay. Matt Cundill 00:09:05 Absolutely. Randi Chase 00:09:06 Okay. I actually love to visit. Matt Cundill 00:09:08 Do you get the feeling, because you and I had this conversation a couple of times, I mentioned that Ottawa was a place to let your radio career go and die. I say that jokingly because I tell that to people when they move there. It's actually not true. Randi Chase 00:09:21 You're kind of serious. I know you. Matt Cundill 00:09:23 Yeah, I am a little. Randi Chase 00:09:24 Because everything you say, like, insultingly, is always with a grain of truth. But you're funny, so you can get away with it. Matt Cundill 00:09:30 But Montreal, you think it's a little bit off the map. It feels off the map, right? Yeah. Why is that? Aside from the language? Randi Chase 00:09:38 I think the language has a lot to do with it, though, so it's hard to say. Aside from the language. For me, it's a place where because there's not a lot of competition in Montreal. I don't think a lot of people care to move. I think they're complacent, and that's fine. Everybody has their own path. I don't think it's lazy to stay in the same place. Your whole if that's what you want to do, if your family is close. As I got older, I realized quality of life and is so much more important than your job. And sometimes that goes hand in hand. So if you're like, in Vancouver, and that's your goal, to get to Vancouver, right? A lot of people it is. But you hate your job and your family's not there. I mean, what are you winning at? Life because you're in Vancouver? I don't really get that. So I feel like a lot of people in Montreal are from Montreal, usually not all of them. And they feel like they found their dream job and they stay. And there's not a big turnover rate in Montreal. Some of the DJs that are still on air, or like, for instance, Tutor, who just got inducted to the Canadian Radio Hall of Fame. I mean, he was there for, what, 40 years? Matt Cundill 00:10:39 Yes. Just shy of 40 years. Randi Chase 00:10:42 Yes. Who I love, by the way. He's so funny. And Terry Monte, I mean, he left, went to Calgary for a couple of years, that didn't work out. Came right back to Montreal and they opened up their arms for him because he was an icon in that city. And I don't know, I just think it's a magical place, but I think it doesn't need the rest of Canada. Just like the politics and the radio are kind of the same. Matt Cundill 00:11:03 Yeah. And there's also different regulations that go on and you're bang on about the competitiveness of the market. There's only three English language radio stations fighting over that English pie, and they all have like a million and a half listeners because of the ranks. Randi Chase 00:11:18 I know. And I remember sometimes I'd listen and be like, these shows are so lazy, but they're still doing amazing, so what's the incentive to I mean, some people want to leave and they want to grow. I left Montreal not because I didn't love my job, but because I did want to try. I was doing an evening show for two years. I knew I wasn't moving to Nat lowzon's day part for a while, so I wanted a day part and I got an opportunity to do so. And they were super nice about it. Yeah. Matt Cundill 00:11:48 And then you moved to Edmonton. So you go into a very competitive market with a brand new station, which was Bounce 91 seven, and bang, you go into the market. What was that experience like to go from a market that's not terribly competitive to all of a sudden the most competitive market in the country? Randi Chase 00:12:06 Is it the most competitive? I thought it was the most competitive, too. Matt Cundill 00:12:09 We've had this debate on this podcast before. I am declaring Edmonton to be the most competitive radio market in the country. And I think Halifax and Calgary can also lay claim to it. We'll put those at two and three. Randi Chase 00:12:22 Yeah. Regardless, I mean, if it's really competitive, that's all you feel. It doesn't matter if it's the most. But to me, it felt like out of every city, the most for sure. Matt Cundill 00:12:30 What was that competitiveness like? Randi Chase 00:12:32 Well, I'm pretty competitive as it is, so for me it was just kind of the same, except I felt extra pressure from those around me. Whereas in Montreal, I was doing a show at night, nobody's in the building. I kept on getting praised for being the number one night show and I was like, well, I'm sure if the monkey was pressing buttons at this station at night, they would be number one too. So for me, it was kind of more of a challenge to do the midday show, which was it's a midday show, but it was a very interactive station. And I did a request hour, fully request, and it was a lot of interaction, which I really liked. I also like the fact, and this is going to be kind of off topic, but it was a street view, like a street view of studio. So we were on the street, so I could see people coming up to the window and waving. And you kind of felt like that interaction more so than being in a studio with no windows at night. I really liked that. I think that helps your show out a little. Matt Cundill 00:13:28 What do you like most in a program director? Randi Chase 00:13:31 Oh, that's probably changed from when I started to now. I can really tell you exactly what I like. I like somebody that's not intimidating, that I feel I could talk to as I'm talking to a friend. With respect, of course, but I respect my friends. So I don't like a program director that thinks they know it all because they're the program director, because they don't and preferably. I really love when a program director has been on air before, because they really get it when someone has never been on air and they're trying to tell you how to do your job. It's really annoying because it's a very emotional job for me. It's a very emotional job. I kind of believe in reality radio where I talk about my real life a lot. That's kind of my shtick is my real life. The stuff online and stuff. If it's topical, I'll bring it up. But I'm very much someone that loves to talk about what's going on and random shit that happens to me, because I feel like that's what makes me kind of a fun person on the air is because so much random stuff happens to me all the time. Vinnie Taylor 00:14:32 Real stories, real life. It's your favorite morning show. Matt Cundill 00:14:37 There's an epidemic going on right now and Randy is fed up with it. The fact that mums judging other mums. Amanda Logan 00:14:43 Mom judging is the worst type of judging. Matt Cundill 00:14:45 Well, there's no manual that comes with being a mom. Amanda Logan 00:14:48 That's the thing I think people don't realize sometimes. I mean, in some cases there's right and wrong, but in in general, raising your kid is your way. It's what you think is best for your baby. And I've had enough, so I've decided to write a little poem. And this is to the moms who judge and the moms who have been judged. They all work hard. So stop the talk. Can't judge a person until you walk their walk. They make me scared to become a mom. They're constant glares. I'm right, you're wrong. Don't feed your kids any treats. Eat your veggies. Avoid processed meats. Don't nurse in public, because that's just wrong. No video games before bed. No Donkey Kong. They say don't give in. Make sure they're disciplined. Don't go to church while you're living in sin. Read all the books. Don't drink wine. Don't stay up past midnight. Don't have a good time. You're now a mom. And it's all one big club. Except if we don't agree, then it's all one big snub. Do us a favor and women unite. Moms come together. Don't start a fight. Help one another. A smile or a nudge. No one's in court, no one likes to be judged. Amen. Matt Cundill 00:15:56 You go, sister. Vinnie Taylor 00:15:57 Join us for all the fun weekday mornings, 530 to ten, the real Wake Up with Vinny and Randy real country 95. Randi Chase 00:16:05 So I really like when a PD could kind of understand where we're coming from and someone that I feel like I could literally just be myself around, that I don't have to feel like they're the big boss, that I have to step on eggshells around. Because you're not getting an honest dialogue when you're trying to suck up to the big boss. I don't like that. So that's probably what I look for. Matt Cundill 00:16:26 I think you're right when it comes to a program director and not really pretending that they know, because even if the program director says something and they're exactly right, everything moves so quickly that they're going to be wrong within 10 seconds later. Randi Chase 00:16:39 Yeah, 100%. Matt Cundill 00:16:40 It just goes that way. And I've always said, anybody who comes in and professes that they know that this is the way that things are done, you actually have to remove that person from the station because your station is going to go nowhere. We see these people, they come in and they will say, I profess and this is what works. And it's coming from another market. Whatever it is, that person needs to be removed, because that's not a progressive attitude, let me tell you. Randi Chase 00:17:06 I agree with you on that. Matt Cundill 00:17:07 Yeah. There's not one way to do it. It's not a science, it's an art. Randi Chase 00:17:12 No, it's not. And every market is so different that you can't say, this will work in Vancouver because it worked in Edmonton. Let me tell you something I've noticed about this market I'm in now. I mean, coming from Vancouver, a really liberal kind of audience that you can get away with a lot to Red Deer. Oh, my God. I've talked about my bra and I got a complaint. So it's very different in the science of it all. You have to really understand your demo to know what you can get away with. If you really don't, it's not going to work. I could be really like, number one in Vancouver, but in Reggie I could be last. So it really depends. Matt Cundill 00:17:51 What's the deal with your bra? Randi Chase 00:17:52 Oh, yeah. My co host, Vinny, you want to know, don't you? Matt Cundill 00:17:55 I do. Randi Chase 00:17:56 My co host, Vinny, he has a girlfriend that works at the Bra Lounge. It's like this bra store and he's obsessed with getting me a proper fitting because I'm constantly doing this and readjusting, and he's like, Girl, why does your bra never working? I'm like it's working. It's just, like, tight. So he's always like, you need to go to the bra lounge. I want to take you bra shopping. So we talked about that, and we got, like, four complaints. I'm like, oh, my God, people. Matt Cundill 00:18:27 All right. Randi Chase 00:18:28 Who. Are you? Matt Cundill 00:18:30 Okay? Yeah. Randi Chase 00:18:32 Today you might see something offensive. Matt Cundill 00:18:36 I'd say that's a good show you had there, right? Randi Chase 00:18:41 Great show. Matt Cundill 00:18:44 So as your career progresses, income, social media, 2007, sort of that magical year when, oh, look. What that? There's Facebook. And here comes Twitter, and here comes so how did you adapt to it, and what do you like about it, and what do you hate about it? Randi Chase 00:18:58 Oh, I remember when Facebook came out, I was working in Montreal, and I remember trying to sign in, and I couldn't because you have to be in university at the time. And, like, which radio person goes to university? None of us. No, I went to college. But then it became like I think a couple of months later, it became accessible to all of us. I loved Facebook just because I've never lived near my parents for so long. So it was a great way of communicating without the phone bill and all of that. I think at first it was, like, super interesting because we've never had this before. But as time goes on, I think it's good and it's bad for what we do. I think it's incredible to connect with people who listen to us. And to be honest, I am super busy on social media. I am an instagrammer. I do all the stories, snapchat. I love talking to people who listen to us. That's my passion, is, like I love forming relationships. I love being able to answer questions any time of the day if they want to ask me something. That, to me, is like, the best part of social media. It's never turned off. The part I hate about social media is the feeling that people think because they have an opinion, that they have to give their opinion. Hey, Randy, you suck and you're ugly. I just get those randomly. And I'm like thank you. Go fuck yourself. And if you write that, then you're not allowed to write that. If you're on the radio, you can't write that to a listener, which really drives me nuts, because we're people, and we should be able to say what we want, but we have to respect the station and all of that. So social media, I don't like that people feel like they could be a bully easily. That's probably, like, the thing I don't like about social media. I can't deal with assholes. I want to say what I want to say. I used to get reprimanded for a kiss all the time because I'd be like, Then don't fucking listen to us. And they'd be like, you can't write that. I was like, but he's a racist. I don't want him listening to us. Whatever. Just my personality. Matt Cundill 00:21:01 What happened in Vancouver? Randi Chase 00:21:03 You were going to ask me that. How do I do this in a way that is nice to say. Matt Cundill 00:21:12 You're working at Rogers. You're working for the company that you always wanted to work for, and the first one you worked at, because at Kiss in Toronto. So there you are, you're working, you're doing a morning show, and then I think the morning show was let go of their duties and then came back and you were in the morning show, but your partner was not. Randi Chase 00:21:33 Yeah, kind of what happened is I started on that show, it's called The Kid Carson Show. There was three of us at the beginning. One of the people on the show got let go within a year due to reasons, whatever. We were sad to see that person go, and then they hired somebody else. And then there was four of us. Now, basically, we did the show. One day. I decided, I'm going to leave the show. You can guess why. Everyone put two and two together, so that's okay. And then I left the show and somebody else left the show. And then I was hired back. And I'm in a better place now than I was. So sometimes jobs like that really take emotional energy out of you. And it did that to me. I literally was done. And then they asked me to come back for a year, so I wasn't done. I did that year, then I was done. Matt Cundill 00:22:30 And then they told you you were done. So you said, at first I was done. Randi Chase 00:22:33 And I was like, okay. They said, Hold on, just give us a month, okay? I said, okay, I understand what's going on here. They said, okay, now you can come back if you want to because it's going to be you and two other people now. And I said, okay, came back, and it was me and two other people for the year. And then we all kind of knew. We knew. All of us knew. We're not stupid. I was just waiting for it at that point, you know. I don't know if bigwigs know that we know, but we know we're not down when they stop talking to you and no one's checking on you anymore. And it's been months. I mean, just have fun later on because you know it's going away. So we just had a good time. Truthfully, Andrew, susie and I were best friends. We still are. Andrew is my brother, one of my best friends I've ever had. We continue to be. And it was just sad because we didn't get to work together every day again. And that's what we were sad about. Everything else, I mean, it comes and goes. Jobs come and go. If you live your life always scared you're going to get fired like a lot of radio people do. You're never going to enjoy what you have and you know what you can't having a year off. I had a year break after that. Well, legally I couldn't work in the city for a year but it was kind of forced to just have a year off and think and relax for the first time ever because I've always been on the go and it really kind of put into perspective for me that radio is not life. My life is important and radio is a part of my life. I used to think radio was just me, that was me, that was my life. And I kind of put it aside and thought like, this is a fun thing I love to do, but I am so much more than that. So when I did that it made my life just like that much better. And now when I got this job in Red Deer, it was more like a conversation I had with Newcap and they asked what I wanted to do and I said, my husband and I are really over the big city. We're over the rat race, we're over having to have a million dollars to buy a house. We want to go smaller. And Alberta is my favorite province I've ever lived in. I could say that I love Alberta and I said, if there's anything there, let me know. They came back to me and said Red Deer. And having lived in Edmonton and Calgary, red Deer smack in the middle between both of those, we thought it would be a really good opportunity and so far we're absolutely loving it. Matt Cundill 00:24:49 What else did you learn in that year off? Randi Chase 00:24:51 I learned that I have a lot of skills that I didn't think I did because all I've done is radio. Really, that's something else I've talked to a lot of people about because much like, I guess every other job, I mean, I haven't done a lot of other jobs, but I know from talking to people, careers go like this, your passion for it goes like this, depending on your surroundings. I mean, when I was unhappy at work for those like couple of years, I started wondering if I hated radio just because of who was around me. Was I being jaded? I know the truth had nothing to do with radio. It just had to do with my surroundings. And I've always loved Radio. I started when I was 15 years old. But what else I learned is that it's okay to feel a little bit lost because I went through a super big depression for a couple of months where I thought, if I'm not doing radio, what the hell am I going to do? What am I good at? I'm not even good at anything. I'm not a good freaking salesperson. I can't work at a bar, I'm never a bartender, I never served. I wanted to go. Back to school. But that was so expensive. Like, crazy expensive. I was like, Do I really want to spend 30 grand on something I'm not even sure about? But I learned it's okay to just let life happen and stop stressing so much. It also helped that I was paid, right? Let's be honest. Matt Cundill 00:26:12 Always. Randi Chase 00:26:13 It does, of course. But it was a cushion for me to just fall on and just be like, I have this time to think and kind of feel like I know what I want to do. I dabbled in a lot of stuff. I did my own social media company for a bit, and I worked for a big chain of hair salons, and I did all their social, and that was really fun, and I learned how to do that kind of thing, and I felt useful in another way. I'm like, I have something to bring, and they don't care if it's Randy Chase doing it. I'm just like, I'm working. I'm doing this on my own. And I found that pretty empowering, actually, knowing that if I ever wanted to get out of Radio, which I don't, I have other skills. I think it's important for you to do other activities and know that you're interested in other things just so you don't feel like this is your only lifeline, because it's never good just to have all your eggs in one basket. If you get fired, you end up feeling like you're screwed, and that's not a good feeling to feel. Matt Cundill 00:27:07 You had a little bit of FOMO when I was at Cmw, and you're like, oh, I see everybody there. Randi Chase 00:27:12 Yeah, I love Cmw. I went a couple of years in a row a couple of years ago. And it's such a great time. It's great. The conferences are great. The lessons are great. But if you want me to be serious, the parties are the fun. Meeting other people that you've heard your whole life as a radio nerd, that's so cool. And you realize they know who you are, and you're like, what? You know my name? I'm never going to be someone who's like, I should know my name. I never thought that in my life. When people are like, I know who you are, I still get really excited. I'm like, oh, that's so cool. How so I did miss, and I saw all these people I love like, I love you. I think you're fucking hilarious. Oh, I swore. Sorry. I think you're frigging hilarious. Matt Cundill 00:27:58 No, you can't. It's a podcast. You go right ahead. Randi Chase 00:28:00 Oh, I forgot. See, that's my radio brain. Matt Cundill 00:28:02 Yeah, of course. You probably affected your brand and you'll get a memo. Randi Chase 00:28:06 Yeah, I didn't care. It's too late. Matt Cundill 00:28:09 You know what I love? I love how Randy didn't even notice she had sworn twice earlier in the podcast, but seemed really worried about using the F word the third time. In just a SEC, we discuss personal brands dating apps and meeting each other for the first time. Amanda Logan 00:28:24 The sound off. Podcast is powered by CoreImage Studio, your brand sound. Get it in the now CoreImage studio. Matt Cundill 00:28:34 As mentioned earlier, Randy moved from Montreal to Edmonton in 2007. I had just come from Edmonton in 2002 and had a whole network of friends who are on the younger side having played division three soccer there. Randy reminded me of the story that dates back before dating apps and social media. Yeah. This is how we met people. Randi Chase 00:28:52 I don't know if you know this about yourself, but you introduced me when I was moving to Edmonton from Montreal, working with you in Montreal, and then I took the job in Edmonton. You're like, I have a friend in Edmonton. His name is Phil Duncan. Matt Cundill 00:29:07 That's right. Randi Chase 00:29:08 So I became friends with Phil. And one Christmas, I could not go home because I couldn't afford to. So I made friends with Phil and his family and they had me over for Christmas. And his mom got me, like, a present. It was so cute. We became really good friends. He introduced me to one of his longtime friends, Brienne, who worked with him at a bar. So we went to Brienne's Christmas party one year and in walks her sister, who's my age. The rest is history. She was one of my bridesmaids, like, best friends with that family to this day. And Phil introduced me to them. And you introduced me to Phil. So thanks. Matt Cundill 00:29:43 Do you know how I met Phil? Randi Chase 00:29:45 Well, didn't he do some dare at the Bear for a contest? Matt Cundill 00:29:48 That's right. He shaved his own leg hair and ate it in a sandwich. And that was worth $5,000. Randi Chase 00:29:56 He got the five grand. Matt Cundill 00:29:57 Yeah. Randi Chase 00:29:59 I would have done it, too, for $5,000, though. Matt Cundill 00:30:01 Yeah, but boy, you can't tell me I don't set you up with the best. Randi Chase 00:30:04 No, you do. Even my husband's met Phil. We've had drinks. He's come from Nanaimo to our house. Yeah, I love that guy. Matt Cundill 00:30:13 And we played on a soccer team together. Randi Chase 00:30:16 That was it. I knew it was a sport you told me about, too. Yeah, I remember you telling me about that what's the contest called. It was like a gross like, who could do the grossest thing? Matt Cundill 00:30:26 Bear's toughest contest. Randi Chase 00:30:27 Wasn't there like a mom and a son? Matt Cundill 00:30:31 I think they were naked in a sleeping bag. Randi Chase 00:30:34 That, too. And he had to wax his mom. Matt Cundill 00:30:37 That's right. Randi Chase 00:30:38 That's disgusting. Matt Cundill 00:30:39 Yeah. Those are great promotions. This is a great podcast. I think you're interviewing me. Randi Chase 00:30:44 Sorry about that. Matt Cundill 00:30:45 No, I love it. Randi Chase 00:30:47 I can't help it. Matt Cundill 00:30:49 How is your brand? What is your brand? Randi Chase 00:30:52 Yeah. I was asked that because I made a website that I have to update because I haven't updated it in a long time. I was advised not to write any posts by job people. I applied for all these marketing and communications jobs on my year off. Didn't get one. I applied for 250 jobs. 250 on indeed, didn't get one. Vancouver is so crazy. Like it's impossible anyways. But they told me I had all these posts about my brand and what I think a brand is and how upsetting it is not to work sometimes and how boring it is. And they told me to take it down. They're like, you're never going to get a job if someone checks your website and you're writing this. So I had to take down a lot of my posts. But I think my brand and I struggled with this because in Vancouver, especially in cities like Vancouver and Toronto, everybody's like the Instagram star. Everybody has an aesthetically pleased, pleasing, light white and light pink page with friggin. Everything's perfect in their house and they're posing just so with the bay blanket on their couch and everything's perfect. I struggle with that brand because I don't know what I am. And I think my brand literally is just being myself. Family, my dog. Just really family focused. I love friends, I love family, I love a good time. That's my brand. I just post pictures all the time. It's just living life. Like I don't have aesthetically staged photos and I find finding your brand is the hardest. Matt Cundill 00:32:15 Where did you meet Mr. Wright? Randi Chase 00:32:18 Oh, this is like the most romantic story of your life. Are you ready? Matt Cundill 00:32:21 Oh, yeah. Randi Chase 00:32:22 Plenty of fish. Matt Cundill 00:32:23 Really? Randi Chase 00:32:25 Just a little click. Yeah, for real. I met him online. Matt Cundill 00:32:29 Plenty of fish. Isn't it like a massive hookup site? Randi Chase 00:32:32 I guess so. I never hooked up on it though. I mean, it probably did, but it took a couple of days, all that stuff. Matt Cundill 00:32:39 I mean, I know tinder, you swipe right, you go for coffee. But I thought Plenty of Fish was where you go to have sex. Randi Chase 00:32:47 No. That's grinder. Matt Cundill 00:32:49 Oh, okay. Wait a second. Randi Chase 00:32:51 You're so cute. Matt Cundill 00:32:52 Mark this down. Randi Chase 00:32:54 Grinder is for gay men, but there is no you don't really want to mark that down. Matt Cundill 00:32:59 Oh, I don't want to remember is. Randi Chase 00:33:00 You like the girls but Plenty of Fish could totally be any site to meet someone could be used as a hookup. You have to weed the people out though. What I did is I had a private profile just because I was doing radio in Vancouver and my face was in a lot of places and I didn't want people to know because in Calgary I had an open profile and some jerk tweeted it out to my radio station. It was like Randy's online dating. And I was so embarrassed. So I made my Vancouver profile private. Matt Cundill 00:33:30 Give me a plenty of Fish disaster story. Randi Chase 00:33:32 Oh, I have a couple, but one that comes to mind is one guy I dated. When I say dated, I went on a date with. We didn't date and I just finished a job. I was working at Kiss Toronto. I did the midday show and I think I had to work late. So it's like 06:00 p.m.. He's like, could you come get me? I don't have a car. And I was like, okay. Usually I'd be like, but it is Toronto, and a lot of people just cycle or walk and downtown. So I'm like, okay, I get it. And I lived in the burps. So I go to get him, and he's like, okay. So we planned going out for dinner. I didn't want to go up for dinner because I never met him, but he really was hell bent on this restaurant near his house. I was more like, let's go to Starbucks. So I figure if he's pressuring me to go to this nice Italian restaurant, he's going to pay, obviously, right? So we go to this restaurant and he's like, get whatever you want, blah, blah, blah. He orders a bottle of wine. Obviously I'm not drinking because I have to drive to Burlington down the highway for half an hour. So we both order like he ordered an appetizer, a bottle of wine, and then his dinner. And all I had was an appy and Diet Coke. The bill comes, he goes, oh, I don't have my wallet. I was like, are you kidding me? And the girl was like 17. And she's like, oh, I can't let you go without paying. And I was like, don't worry. Mama's got this. So I whip out my wallet, I pay, and I'm like, so are you going to give me money back? Are we going to split this? And he's like, well, I'll get the next date. I was like, are you frigging serious? I'm okay with splitting the bill, but I just paid for your bottle of wine that I had none of your dinner and your appy. So I PROCEED to ask him if I could just drop him off at home. And I had to go to the bathroom really bad. And I knew I had a long drive ahead of me, so I'm just like, could I use your bathroom? And I texted I know I was 24. I texted my girlfriend a picture of his house and the address. And I wrote, this is where I am. I'm going to the bathroom. And then I took a picture of him and sent it to her. He laughed. He's like, yeah, don't worry. I'm not going to kill you, you. So I go to the bathroom and I come out and the man is weeping on the couch, crying. And he pulls out of his backpack an urn with his cat's ashes. And his cat died a year ago. And he was crying because his cat was dead. And he carries the ashes around on his anniversary. And that's why he misplaced his wallet, he thought, because he was just in a kebuffle. And I had to console him while he balled his eyes out about his cat. Then I left. Got peaced out. Never saw him again. Matt Cundill 00:35:56 Good God. Randi Chase 00:35:57 Yeah, it was very strange. He was holding the ashes while crying, too. Did this really happen? This really happened. Matt Cundill 00:36:12 I can see inside your house. It's being renovated a little bit. You're adding some stuff. You're doing some stuff because I don't want to say what's next because there might be a next, but it looks like you've really settled down and got some roots in Red Deer. Randi Chase 00:36:26 Yeah. And it's funny because I always said to myself, like, I'm never going to work in a smaller market, ever. I didn't think I said it like that, but I think you get this mentality of you only made it if you're in the big city, but that's not your fault. You're ingrained that from the beginning of radio. If you make it to a big city, you're awesome. And the truth is, and I'm not just saying this because now I am in Red Deer, I chose to come here. A b. I've worked in all the big cities so I could say this, we're not talking small, small town. Red Deer is not like small small. I mean, it's like a city, but there's no difference. When I hear some jocks in Red Deer than I hear in Vancouver, sometimes I'm in Vancouver and I'm like, how did that guy get in Vancouver? Radio like, how is he on the air here? Well, companies are cheap and they don't want to move someone across the country. So if someone's already in that city, they'll just deal with it. So I think talent doesn't necessarily mean you're better if you made it to a bigger city. I'm sure sometimes it does, but overall, I don't think that's the case. When I listen to a lot of people here who have had offers everywhere. But I know one girl who's had an offer in Toronto and Calgary and Montreal. She's saying she just loves it here. She loves Alberta, she loves her home. Her parents are an hour away, her boyfriend has a great job here. I like that about people here. I like that they're comfortable enough to say no. I like what I'm doing. I don't have to go to Toronto and Starve just to have a dream job. Matt Cundill 00:37:58 I think you're right. With the salary, the salaries have a lot to do with it. And the salaries are the same as the big city. And guess what? It just costs more to live in the city. So what's the point? Randi Chase 00:38:06 Right now in my life, I'm happy I did it. Would I want to move to Alberta, to Red Deer when I was 24? No. I wanted the big city, I wanted to party, I wanted to do all that. Now I'm married and we want to have a kid soon, in the next year or two. And we have a dog and we're very much more low key. And here we have a condo we bought in Vancouver. One bedroom, one bathroom, 580 sqft. Even outside of Vancouver and Poco Portokulum, we have a house that's literally, like, 50 grand more less than our condo. And it's a four bedroom, two bathroom backyard, huge house. It's like nuts, just a different way of living. Matt Cundill 00:38:49 Do you remember when we first met? Randi Chase 00:38:53 No. You got to refresh my memory. Like, the first moment we met. Yeah, I remember. No. Did we? Were you a jerk to me? No, but, like, in a funny way. Matt Cundill 00:39:03 I don't even remember. I just wanted to know if you remembered. Randi Chase 00:39:05 No, I don't. Matt Cundill 00:39:06 I don't remember. Randi Chase 00:39:07 I remember always, like, knowing you there. I don't remember the moment because I was so nervous. I probably blocked out, like, meeting everybody for the first time. Matt Cundill 00:39:15 Yeah, well, I mean, you got your tour of Shome, right? You were at Mix, came down the hall. I was across the hall from your program director. Randi Chase 00:39:21 I remember that. I remember your office was right to the right. Like, if you're turning up one to the right, and he was on the left. Matt Cundill 00:39:26 Randy, it has been fantastic having you on the podcast. Randi Chase 00:39:29 You're my favorite podcaster. Matt Cundill 00:39:31 And considering that there's 425,000 podcasts out there, I'll take that as a compliment. Randi Chase 00:39:39 Yes, you are my favorite. Thanks for listening to the Sound Off podcast. Find us online at soundoffpodcast.com and connect with us, whoever great social media is house. The show is Imaged using the sounds from Core Image Studios, Evanston. Matt Cundill 00:39:55 Mixing and production. Randi Chase 00:39:56 Kendra Magnus Johnston content marketing. Matt Cundill 00:39:59 Written and hosted by Matt Kundal, a. Randi Chase 00:40:02 Production of the Sound Off media company.

Back in 2018, Corey Dylan was on the show and her episode about being resilient was one of our most downloaded. Things like unemployment, restructuring, and looking for work in radio are rather evergreen. However, attitudes need to shift as programmers are hiring differently than they were a few years ago. In this episode, Corey and I discuss resiliency (again), attitudes when looking for work, and keeping yourself adaptable to the ever changing wants of programmers. This is the first episode I have recorded since returning from a long period in Spain, where I filled my instagram with food and travel pics... which Corey would comment on. I have shared a few of the photos and recipes on things we discussed over on the blog page. Until then, please connect with Corey on all her socials and share this episode far and wide with someone who is feeling discouraged in their job search. Finally, after the recording had stopped, Corey had one more piece of advice to share if you are currently looking for work: "When I was really struggling and out on a Friday night I ran into a woman whose family is in the pro wrestling business, and she had a short stent in Radio. She told me (as I was probably complaining or bemoaning my status) “people don’t buy negativity. People by enthusiasm!” I’ve shared that quote with others who were complaining about being fired a bunch of times, or whatever. You’ve got to leave the past behind you as quickly as possible because it’s like a stench that will follow you and keep you from moving on in your career. Nobody wants to hear about your Ex (job, boyfriend, etc). 🤗" Something we completely forgot about (like most things in the pandemic) was a random conversation we had via Youtube. We were both lonely and bored and this constituted out entertainment back in April 2020. I had to dig a little for this but this was a trial run I was doing with Streamyard and it was shared only to Facebook . Today Streamyard is an oft used tool in the podcast toybox. During the Pandemic, Corey started a Happy Hour where she would make some cocktails in her kitchen. She hadn't quite started at her new gig at 100.7 Big FM in San Diego, so she had some free time on her hands. Corey talks about the difference between Horchata in Spain and Mexico. Corey also has an alcohol beverage with Horchata. Subscribe to her Youtube page because you never know when another pandemic will strike and if we will need those drink recipes again. A few of the other recipes I said I would share from my recent trip to Spain included Salmorejo. The dish is served chilled and do not call it a soup. The best version I have found if from an American women named Lauren Eloise who relocated and married a Spaniard. Her mother-in-law shared the family recipe and it is gold. As much as I would love to cut and paste it, it is just rude to do that so go to the webpage here. This version was taken at a restaurant in Malaga called Tita Ché. TRANSCRIPTION Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:00:00 The sound off podcast. The podcast about broadcast with Matt Cundill starts now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:10 This week, I'm bringing back my good friend Corey Dylan. In the seven years that we've been doing this show, corey's episode remains one of the top ten most downloaded. We talked a lot in that episode about her resilience in finding work. She spent two and a half years out of work before landing a job in Atlanta. She's since moved on to 100.7 Big FM in San Diego, where she's doing mornings. Today, though, we're going to discuss being restructured and what to do in the in between time. Corey's going to look back on her period being out of work and talk about where the radio business is going. Now, I recently got back from two months in Spain, where Corey was commenting on a lot of my Instagram food posts, and she and I just love talking about food, drink, and travel, so we're going to talk about that too. And now Corey Dylan joins me from her awesome kitchen in San Diego. How are you? And when was the last time we saw each other? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:01:03 Well, like this, I think it was four years ago because I had just started a new job in Atlanta, and I've already been living in San Diego, California for over two years, which it blows my mind. Time goes fast when you're having fun. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:18 I think we got together very briefly on the Internet, specifically YouTube. I don't think I put it into the podcast stream, but we just had a chat just to catch up. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:01:27 Okay. Like I said, it's been a blur the last several years of my life for everybody, I think, actually, yeah, you. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:35 Were talking to me right when you were starting in Atlanta, and you spoke from you had to find refuge somewhere in the new condo. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:01:43 Well, apartment. Apartment. And there is a big difference. It was interesting, to say the least. I don't even remember why I couldn't find an Internet connection, but I had to go down to the common space, and I think there was some guy down there, and I was like, Hi, just super exhausted, sleeping on an air mattress. How are you doing? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:02 So the Atlanta experience, if I recall correctly, went for a little bit. You were doing Mornings, and then you got moved to middays, and then the station, I think, disappeared altogether and came back as something different. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:02:12 Well, they rebranded. Yeah, they rebranded. I mean, after 30 some years as Kicks 101 on 1.5, they rebranded to New Country 115. So it was still country music. It was just new country. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:27 And then you left Atlanta? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:02:28 I did. Was invited to leave Atlanta. I was invited to come to San Diego. I got a call the day after the presidential election in the midst of a global pandemic from somebody that I used to work in the same building with in Seattle for CBS Radio, which, as we know, after 100 years doesn't exist anymore. And he said, well, listen, we've got four radio stations in San Diego, and we also have a digital media company. And we flipped this station and acquired this station, actually, right before the Pandemic. And then, of course, when the Pandemic hit, they decided now is probably not a great time to hire, as most people came to that same conclusion. And so they invited me out for Thanksgiving, the American Thanksgiving, which was at the end of November, and my sisters lived here for, at the time, like, 25 years. I said, well, you know, I bet she'd love to see me for Thanksgiving. And he said, I bet you're right. And they flew me out. And the day after Thanksgiving, they offered me the gig. And less than a month later, I had packed up all my stuff on a one way ticket out of Atlanta, Georgia and landed in San Diego, California. And I've been here ever since. Happily. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:41 You were the first hire at the station. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:03:44 I was the first hire at the station. I mean, my program director, Garrett Michaels, is also doing afternoons, and he is also the program director of the legendary 40 year run 91 X and does a Sunday show called Resurrection Sundays on 91 X, an alt station. And it's just presumably going to be me and him from here on out. They don't have any intention on putting a midday jock on. And by the way, middays is our number one day part, and then we have our production director, who also does a Sunday yacht rock show, and that's immensely popular, too. And it's just kind of the three of us on this little boat and streaming right along. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:31 Full disclosure, you just got up from a nap. I only know that actually because you told me that. How does the morning routine wear and tear on you? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:04:41 It's hard. And, I mean, the last month was just a little different. I had two four day work weeks because I took a couple of Gimme days to just go check out Arizona. I hadn't been to Arizona in a very long time, so I went for spring training for the San Diego Padres and did a little bit of hiking. And then when I got back, I found out an uncle had passed away. So I traveled to Ohio for the funeral, and then on the way back from the funeral, the day afterwards, one day back on the job, and I found out I had COVID for the first time, and it was also daylight saving time. So I suppose I'm recovering sort of a lot from much of that, but other than that, I'm fine. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:27 I thought they didn't have daylight saving in Arizona. I thought that was the one place where everybody was. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:05:32 They don't, so everybody catches up with them for a little while, even though a lot of these I don't even know if the laws have passed. Every year there's like somebody's putting up another law saying we're going to get rid of it. It's bad for people, but we still have it, at least San Diego and most other states, I think there are only, I don't know, maybe two or three states that don't celebrate daylight saving time. But I don't know. I've done mornings off and on, mostly on, for over 2025 years now, and it's different everywhere. And every time I've done it, I think I don't know if it's getting older because unlike most people that get older, I just want more sleep. But I think it's also that it's just me on this job. And I think when you have other people that are expecting to see you in the morning and that are waiting on you and that, you know, are counting on you, it's a little bit different. I don't know, it's somehow easier than I guess I'm not very good at self motivating or something like that, because I roll out of bed these days and roll down the five, as we call it here, and show up to work, and by the time I'm there, I'm great and showered and everything like that. But it is just a challenge to get up before dawn. I think it always will be. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:51 You know, you're one of the most downloaded in this podcast series that we've been doing since 2015. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:06:57 And I kept my clothes on and everything, so that's exciting. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:07:02 Yeah. I mean, you went most of 2017, you didn't have any work. You just mentioned Arizona, so all this is coming back to me. I know you did a little bit of work with the Arizona Coyotes at some point. Some of that was obviously done remotely and some of it but you had a great relationship with them, so you're not foreign to Arizona at all. But I think a lot of people listened to the episode because they were like, Well, I'm out of work, but here's Corey Dylan, who spent a long time out of work but found things to do. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:07:30 Two years. Two years and seven months out of work. And I worked for the Red Sox in the meantime. And I did some work for the Home Shopping Network, which was based in Tampa Bay. St. Pete, actually. I still am sort of sharing those lessons about unemployment because the landscape continues to change. I mean, I was out and thought, man, have I been blacklisted? Is it my age? What is it? I've got this successful track record and my agents at the time were telling me that they were looking for somebody that could get attention. And I'm like, well, what are you talking about? I'm working for the Red Sox and I'm working for HSN, which is a national channel. I mean, both of those combined have a bigger footprint than any radio station I've ever worked for. But again, the landscape has changed and fewer and fewer jobs are now available. But in this long, seemingly never ending search for another gig in radio I remember seeing a George Clooney quote, and I remember saying something very similar to my agent. I had an interview in Seattle, my hometown, with a guy, and I asked him, what are you looking for? And he said, Well, I want to hire a man. I was like, okay. And I don't know if it was because it was a rock station, which I had a history with one of the rock stations in Seattle, KZ okay, who knows? But I came out of that interview and talked to my agent, and I said, well, I thought my track record would speak for itself. I thought they just had to like me. And the George Clooney quote is, I had to stop going to auditions thinking, oh, gosh, I hope they like me. And I had to go in thinking I was a solution to their problem. And that sort of reframed the way I thought about what I was there to do. And then the other interview, it was kind of like a behind the Actors Studio with Brian Cranston from Breaking Bad, among other shows and movies. And he said he was talking about interviews and either getting the job or not getting the job. And if you don't get the job, it wasn't meant to be your job. He said, it's very subtle, but there is a difference. He said, you're not there to get a job. You're there to do a job. So that interview is essentially an audition. No matter what industry I think that you're in, you have to demonstrate that you can do the job if you're an on air talent or whatever it is that you do. You have to demonstrate your knowledge and your skill. So I don't know. Those two things really clicked for me. And then my niece had also shared an article with me that's behind a paywall from the Wall Street Journal, but it was called The Secrets of Resilience. And it talked about everyone from Henry Ford to Oprah Winfrey and how many times they were fired and how many failures they had. And I'm always happy to share that article with anybody that asks me for it because my niece sent it to me. And so I have the PDF of it. I can send it to you, too, but everybody kind of goes through it. And with a changing landscape, you really have to be the solution to their problem. And it just so happened I got lucky that somebody that I worked with over 20 years ago remembered me and knew that I was coming to the end of my contract. And Cumulus was good enough to let me out of my contract just a wee bit early so that I could take this opportunity to be closer to family and something I'm very grateful for because I'm very happy here. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:00 So we had a very large episode before the pandemic. We had a quick little YouTube discussion during the pandemic, and here we are on the other side of the pandemic. And congratulations. I think you're one of the very last to get COVID. What was that experience like? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:11:15 I know I was very lucky. I mean, I was vaccinated and boosted and even among my family members, a cousin got it at the funeral. One of my sisters got it at the funeral. My parents both got it and they're elderly. And my uncle also got it, and he's going to be 90 in a couple of months. I got the least of the symptoms. I just felt a little rundown and just kind of had a head cold, which I'm still kind of getting over a little bit, but for me it wasn't bad. So, like I said, I'm very lucky and happy to be here. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:51 I got eliminated from the Never Club over Christmas with so many people around the Christmas table. I lost, I think, the first couple weeks of January altogether in a fog and then never really got my breath back. And, yeah, the next thing you know, it's February. But I'm back. No, I'm feeling good now. Feeling good now. But January was not a happy time. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:12:18 But it's so true. It hits everybody differently and you don't know until you know. Right? And all the different strains. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:27 Actually, I want to touch on something that we didn't talk about in the first episode, and you brought it up here and that's Home Shopping Network and your ability to get behind the camera and really solve a problem. And here was a company that had some piece of technology and you came out in $42,000 of it, just began to move, and you solved their problem. So is that the moment when you knew you were adept in front of a camera, or had you always known? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:12:59 I've always been sort of I mean, I think a lot of us that get into radio are like this. It's kind of acting, right? I mean, voiceover. I've done a lot of voiceover over the years. You mentioned the Arizona Coyotes. My friend that worked there, bless his heart, for inviting me to audition and give me some voiceover work for the Coyotes. But he's now moved on to the Ottawa Senators. I did a little bit for them. I think it was just for one season, not this season. I'm like, I haven't heard from him in a while. Part of it is desperation, to be honest with you. I mean, throwing everything against the wall to see what would stick. And with the Home Shopping Network, I had another friend that worked there. I mean, you really need to learn. Lean on your friends and learn from them too. I mean, I did learn from my friend Carrie. She's great. She still does stuff for the Home Shopping Network and she would just kind of give me some pointers about how to sell. And that is one good thing that I think I brought back with me to Radio when we do endorsements, how to sell something for them, it's all about the benefits and the features. What does that mean to the person watching? Doesn't mean anything. And what I was selling was smart locks. When they asked me, are you really good with technology? I was like, yes, totally. And as you and I both know, just even trying to set up this video thing, it's a little off, but here we go. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:22 During the pandemic, another thing that was really great was you did stuff and here you were, you're brave and sticking your face in front of the YouTube and, well, it's 05:00 where I am, and I'm going to mix a drink and you're all going to watch me. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:14:38 Yeah, well, I mean, we were all doing happy hours, right? And everybody was just kind of drinking and shooting the shit, just talking. And for me, what I started to do because I was bored, I was home alone in my apartment. I was working out of my apartment. I was tracking everything because we did not have the ability to go live without somebody back in the studio. And the morning show at the time was the only one that was doing anything live. And I was bored. I was worried about that connection with the audience. And I thought, well, I mean, social media, we can go live now. So I started doing Facebook lives. I started reaching out to all the celebs or comedians or TV reality show hosts and characters that I had come across in my years in Tampa Bay and asking them, hey, you want to do this happy hour thing with me? And most of them said yes. So I just started having guests on. And then when that really honestly got to be too big of a pain in the butt because some people were on board and some people just kind of dragged me along and it took a lot of preparation to do that. I sort of morphed into making cocktails that I'd never had before, like pre prohibition, prohibition cocktails. And thank God prohibition hit right after the last global pandemic. Thank God there wasn't prohibition. But yeah, it just kind of took off. And so I started doing it again. I stopped doing it about six months after I moved to San Diego because I thought, oh, the pandemic is totally over. But then we saw another wave and it didn't let up. So I thought, well, let me do this again. And now I'm in the process of trying to monetize it very slowly. But honestly, it was part that connection that I wanted to maintain with the audience, but it was also trying to maintain being on my feet, being able to do live radio and live TV, because I think I did one maybe a few lives with HSN because with the Pandemic, they couldn't have anybody come to their studio. And my function with them is as an on air guest and it's pretty sporadic that I'm ever on. But I did have the opportunity after I'd moved away, they said, well, it's not going to work out anymore, even though I was only in Atlanta. But with the Pandemic, they started skyping people in doing live skype. So that presented an opportunity for me to continue to work with them. But now they've brought everybody back finally to the studio as of a few months ago. So maybe it'll happen again, maybe it won't, but you just kind of roll with the punches, right, and just do what you have to do in just a second. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:17:25 More with Corey as we discuss the pandemic making cocktails, how AI will affect voiceover and radio. There's more, including additional advice on looking for work, Spanish food recipes, and a few drink recipes from Corey. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:17:40 Transcription of the Sound Off podcast is powered by the YOU MAY ALSO LIKE Podcast, the show about people, places and things. Follow the show on your favorite podcast app or AT youmayosolike.net Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:17:40 This podcast supports Podcasting 2 point 0. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now. If you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at newpodcastapps.com. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:09 So a really cool YouTube channel came out of the pandemic for you with all these nice cocktails that I don't know how to make a good cocktail. Like a classic margarita you've got posted up there, but a Manhattan I've tried and failed many times. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:18:27 Oh, really? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:28 Yeah. I don't make a great one, right? Because I have one and it's okay. And then the second one is generally a little bit better. And then the third one, you know what happens at the third cocktail? You shouldn't get involved with it and you're probably not going to dinner at that point, right? What makes a good cocktail? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:18:47 I do believe it really is the ingredients and the recipe. I mean, not all recipes are the same. And some of these prohibition or pre prohibition or post prohibition cocktails that you might find in like the Savoy Cocktail book from the Savoy Hotel in London, the book was published in 1930 and it's sort of an interesting story. And that's what I like about all these different cocktails, is the history behind them. I mean, what makes a good cocktail if they can make a good cocktail out of bathtub gin. They were making gin in their bathtubs. The reason why all these cocktails sprung up is because the gin wasn't very good. It was disguised with a sweetener or citrus, usually. But I think if you use either very good ingredients and why wouldn't you? I always say it's your house. You can go to a bar and spend twice as much for lesser ingredients, a lesser quality bourbon or whatever the case might be. Why would you why wouldn't you splurge on yourself? Gosh darn it. Find one cocktail that you really like and get really good at making it. And so when people come over to your house, they know they're going to get a really good Harvey Wallbanger or whatever the case might be. Not my favorite, by the way. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:00 The best Bloody Mary I've ever had was made with real tomatoes in the fall outside of Lambeau Field at 930 in the morning before a packers game. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:20:08 Really? OOH, that does sound good. I mean, as cold as it would be, I don't know that I'd be in the mood for an icy beverage. But you do you, Matt. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:18 It was fall. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:20:19 You do you. Oh, okay. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:21 Yeah, it's tomato harvesting season. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:20:24 Yeah, well, those fresh, even if you're making a tomato soup or whatever. A friend of mine brought me a basket of tomatoes one time, and I made the best tomato soup I've ever had in my life. I think it was a gazpacho or something, but there's a difference, right? So why wouldn't it be the same with cocktails? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:41 Do you still have a food blog? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:20:42 I don't. Because I needed to have a life again, and that is the honest to God truth to make anything like Rachel Ray does in 30 minutes, because I try to keep both shows, or I did at the time, to 30 minutes. And I know some YouTube entertainment agent apparently told some other attorney that asked him to watch it. He just said my cocktail shows were too long, so I've tried to condense them down to, like, ten minutes, but the food shows were like a half hour long. And it was fun at the time and at a time where you really did have a captive audience because everybody was turning to the internet for entertainment, right? That was the only way we had to connect with one another, really, face to face. So I don't do it anymore. I've started a bunch of things, and I'm sometimes terrible at finishing them, but this cocktail show is coming around again, so I really only take like, a week off when I have to, I don't know, travel for whatever, a funeral or whatever. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:21:47 This is why I love you. Food, travel, and drink. I mean, who doesn't love somebody who loves food, travel, and drink? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:21:54 You'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. I've dated some guys that don't travel at all. Like, they don't get on a plane, so they weren't worried about COVID at all. I don't know. There are people out there. I know. You just got back from Spain, right? Like, you were there for like a month, weren't you? Or two. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:22:13 Two months. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:22:14 How did you do that? See, that's the dream, right? To be able to do whatever we do from anywhere. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:22:20 The only thing I did not do is record podcast episodes, okay? I recorded them all in advance. I just feel that I'm in it. I really like recording episodes either with somebody in the room or in my studio. I did do a live show from Spain. That was fine. I hosted my other podcast, the podcast Super Friends. That was absolutely no problem. But I think when I'm interviewing, I really like to be in this particular spot or in the same room as the person to be conducting that interview. It's a creator thing. I'm in a one bedroom apartment, or I'm in a studio apartment, really, in Spain, and it's noisy outside, and Spain is a very noisy country, and somebody comes along singing every half hour and. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:23:09 Siestas and whatnot. I know if Spain is the best food I've ever had traveling in my life. And from the pictures that you posted online, I get the impression you might think the same. I mean, the food looked incredible. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:21 They do food very differently. There's very few ingredients that go into anything. So we ordered a goat and they just put salt on it. We ordered lamb, and it was just salt, but it tasted delicious. And you were talking about gaspacho, and it's not quite gaspacho season there, but there's something else called samarejo, and I couldn't wait to have a cold soup. They don't like it when you call those soups, by the way. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:23:47 Why? What do we call them? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:48 They're not soups. If you call it a soup, they look at you funny. It's what it is. It's gaspacho. It's a little more pasty, but again, it's fantastic. And I've got a recipe that I'll share in the show notes of this episode as well, to make samarejo, which is the Southern Spanish the andalusian version of a gaspacho, which is great if you live in one of those hot states in the US. Like you do. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:24:11 Yeah, well, I mean, the weather has been a little funny lately, but I still do like to cook, but I just don't do it for the cameras anymore, at least right now. I mean, it was fun, but again, the amount of preparation to have everything sir Latab or misenplas, as they say, everything prepared and ready to go. Basically the menu or the recipe almost memorized. It was a challenge. It was a challenge I was up for every week. But I wanted to have a life again and enjoy it and not have to do hair and makeup and be on. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:24:50 Yeah. I should point out that I did do two months away. I'm actually running from winter, given where I live in Canada. You don't have that problem. But I do want to ask you still, what is better? Who has the better weather? Is it San Diego or Tampa? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:25:04 Well, it depends on the season. I mean, we've been in a three plus year drought in San Diego, something they never have a problem with in Florida. Right. Because the rainy season is from June through November or middle of November or beginning of November, and it's like white out downpours. I mean, it's hurricane season, but here, I swear to you, in the two years I first lived here, it probably rained while I was here, and I saw it maybe ten times, and I'm being generous, but now the snow pack is like over 700 inches. It's insane. We've had so much precip and rain and snow, but it's much more moderate. I don't have to take three showers a day like I do in the summertime. And the winters in Florida are incredibly beautiful, but I wouldn't like to get in the water until it was May and 80 degrees. But here the water is very cold. The Pacific Ocean? I don't know. I'm trying to think if I've ever been in the Pacific Ocean, maybe in Mexico. And I'm going to Mexico on a Disney cruise. That's the one good thing about living on each coast in Florida and Southern California, I get each Disney. So very exciting. But yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's station related. Yeah. Even though I'm not a parent, I'm going with a couple of other gals in radio, both coming from Orlando. I put it out there to the universe. I said, Well, I'm going on this cruise. I really was fishing to see if anybody else from the West Coast was going on this Disney cruise. So I had a friend and they sort of volunteered to go with me. And I said, you know what? Yeah, they're out of work right now, essentially from full time radio. So I thought, yeah, sure, come on, let's go. It's a little girlfriend's cruise, but they have plenty of things I hear for, like, single moms and dads. And the cruises themselves are very nice. I mean, Disney does everything first class, right? So I'm excited. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:27:04 Going to ask for the hot takes now. And it's about the same subject matter, and it's going to be about AI. But we'll start with voiceover, because voiceover has been so much a part of your career, especially in the last decade, and now it's evolved into this particular realm. How do you look at it? How do you cope with it? And what do you think about it? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:27:26 It is interesting sort of how polarizing it's become already with even the Elon Musk of the world saying, we need to back off a little bit. That's a little terrifying because you're kind of like, what do they know that we don't know? I mean, from what we know, that it's going to take over tasks for what did I read? More than 80% of the jobs that exist today. So it's like, what are we going to do? That's weird. Are we going to evolve ourselves out of existence? And with certain jobs like radio and voiceover, that's particularly hard because we know that they can also mimic. Somebody told me the other day, they're like, I would stop talking around Alexa and Siri, and I'm like. You can't. How can I stop talking? I mean, how you know I can't stop talking? I've kissed the blowny stone, for crying out loud. I don't know. The little people like me, we're just kind of hanging on for dear life to the industry that we know right now, right, while certain radio companies not mine, because we're small, we're local, and we're successful as a small local company. So I don't know, I hope it doesn't come from my job anytime soon. But if it's not that, it could be something else. It could be somebody younger. I mean, that's what's happened in the past and that's what happens to a lot of us, right? So, I don't know, I suppose it's sort of a wait and see and be all that you can be and try to maybe use it to your benefit if you can figure something out. Again, be the solution to whatever the problem is, even if you don't have, I don't know, the wherewithal, maybe the ignorance that we have with technology or somebody like me, I should say, we might come up with a solution to our own problem. I mean, just screaming at it with fist rays like get off my lawn isn't going to work. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:29:24 I'm not nearly as alarmed about it in radio as I am for voiceover. I'm worried that somebody will go and take my voiceover work and then compile it all into my voice and then reuse it for different commercials. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:29:37 Right. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:29:38 That's my fear. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:29:40 Well, I mean, it's already been done. I mean, the woman what is her name? I can't remember what her name is. I think it's Susan. I'd have to look it up. But the gal that voiced the original Siri, right. Was it, siri? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:29:54 No, I think it's TikTok and it's. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:29:57 Bev standing no, I'm talking about way back. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:02 The woman no, you're right. The original, siri. And you're right. Susan. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:30:05 Susan something. I'd have to look on my Twitter. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:10 Susan Bennett. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:30:11 Yes, thank you. I interviewed her back in the day, and though she didn't say I think she has come out to say now that she voiced God knows how many words and how many hours, thousands of hours probably. And what they did with her voice was essentially what AI is doing with voices now. I mean, this technology has been around for a little while and it's been used and she was paid what, like I think rumor has it like 20 something thousand dollars. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:43 I think the danger of that is you get $20,000, but then that's your voice and that's what you're known for. And then McDonald's comes along and is not going to give you another job because you're already on every phone and we don't need that. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:30:56 Right. Your voice is everywhere. So I don't know. I don't even know that she understood the full scope of that job and what it meant because we didn't have smart devices at the time. She was really kind of the first one. I mean, Randy Thomas, too, with the ABCD EFG. So it is kind of terrifying, but I don't know what I can do about it other than sort of embrace it, maybe see how I can use it. Or maybe we all copyright our voices. I don't know. Maybe that's the next step. We ensure our legs, our voices, our vocal cords. I don't know. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:31:37 If another radio station in the market started to bring in radio AI versions of personalities, I'd be totally fine with it because my station still has Corey in the morning. What do you mean you're still on the radio? You're the personality. I don't care if they want to bring in people who are fake. I've got somebody who's real. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:31:57 Oh, well, yeah, I'm sure that's my company's stance. They don't even want us to broadcast outside the building from home, whether we're sick or traveling, because they were the victim of they bribe you, they hack you ransomware. And they were like, yeah, we're not paying, so they had to rebuild everything. So they won't work with any of the free systems that are available out there. I don't know. Like I said, maybe that's the short term solution for us individually. But even these AI created models and people. I'm sure there's somebody that looks like that out in the world, but supposedly it's not based on any one person. You know what I mean? So I'm sure there's somebody out there that sounds exactly like me. I hope not, but they're in all likelihood 8 billion people on planet Earth. I'm guessing maybe somebody does. I just hope they're not in radio. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:33:01 You've already given probably one of the best pieces of advice so far for anybody who is looking for work to get back into radio, and that's be the solution to a problem. Do you have one more piece of advice? Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:33:19 If there's any regret that I have, it's saying no to things prematurely and really, I guess, not fully believing in my own abilities and background and talents. I don't know if you heard. I'll do a little humble brag here. I won my first award. I won a Gracie Award for best morning show host. In a large market, there's plenty of great talent. The Gracie's have many, many awards. Every year. Named after Gracie Allen. It's in its 48th year. I get to go to New York City to Chipriani's on 42nd street and pick up that award in person on June 20. Among the other categories are podcasting. I believe the Duchess Meghan Markle has also won an award this year. It's really exciting, but I wouldn't have even known to do something like that to submit myself for any of these awards if it weren't for agents and other people who were getting awards, friends in the business that were getting awards. So I would just be your own best advocate whether or not you have an agent. I don't necessarily know if you need an agent in this climate with the way most companies are paying their talents. I mean, do you really want to pay somebody 6710 percent of that salary that they get you? If they get you a huge salary, great, but you're basically locked into whatever. I mean, I do know of somebody that was paid $90,000 in a major market to do Mornings, and I'm sure she paid her agent 10%, if that's okay with you. Great. But I don't even know that that company was getting her many endorsements that she probably could keep or things like that. So I don't know. Just be your own advocate. Be open to the experience and any experience that will make you a better talent. I mean, that could be TV, that could be voiceover. I think that you do need to multitask anymore and become multi talented. You can't be a one trick pony. Nobody needs that anymore. And whatever those other talents that you have or passion that you have for something, whether it's podcasting, just do it. Do it not because somebody's paying you to do it. Do it because you want to do it. Whatever your passion is. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:35:44 Corey, thanks so much for sharing all of the stuff and catching up. It's been five years. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:35:50 I know it's been a long minute. I need to go back and look for that other conversation we have. I don't even remember it. I kind of do, but I think that was that during the pandemic, I was drunk, too. Yeah, I know. Was it for one of my happy hours? I don't know. I mean, we all gained, like, the pandemic of the Quarantine 15, which I'm still trying to lose. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:36:13 You know what, I'll find it. I'm going to post it in the show notes. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:36:16 Okay, good, thank you. Yeah, and I want to see that recipe for that soup. Seriously, because where did you get it? Did you just find one yourself or did somebody give you one from a restaurant? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:36:24 I have been using it. It's actually a woman who moved to Spain. She married a Spaniard and then started devour tours so you can go on a food tour there with her company. And she actually has a very similar food blog to what we're used to, and it's got all the Spanish cooking up there and it's her mother in laws, and I replicated it a few times and it rocks. It is just as good as what you'll have in any andalusian restaurant. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:36:49 Okay, that sounds good. I'm game. I've got a nice Spanish red or whatever. I'll whip up a little, maybe some the food was so good. What's gambas? Gambas alejio? I'll make some of that. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:37:03 So the best gambas alejio, by the way, is in Madrid. It is at a restaurant called the Casa de Bula, and I'll put a small video of how it comes out also in the show notes. Of this episode. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:37:18 Okay, good. I know you've got your work cut out for you. I've given you a few homework assignments to attach to this episode. But, I mean, the food and the drink, it's important. Right. Did you have any particular cocktails in Spain? Because, I mean, tapas used to be put literally on top of a cocktail. Right. Or wine. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:37:36 Yeah. So vermouth is the drink. And it's not the vermouth that you think that you mix in with some of the other stuff. It's more sweet. It derives from the wine, and you put up orange and maybe a splash of gin and a little fizzy water in there. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:37:53 Okay. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:37:54 You actually just spray the glass with gin again. I'll put another video in the show notes so you can see how it is done at Taberna la Concha on the Cava Baja in Madrid. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:38:04 Sounds good. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:38:04 All this stuff for I'll put a little food section for us right down below in the blog. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:38:08 It's only right. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:38:09 Yeah. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:38:10 Okay, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Matt, for having me. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:38:13 All right. That's good. To catch up and continued success at Big 100.7 FM. Corey Dylan (Guest) 00:38:19 Thank you. Thank you. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:38:21 The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill, produced by Evan Surminsky, social media by Courtney Krebsbach. Another great creation from the Sound Off media company. There's always more at soundoffpodcast.com.

In all the years we've been doing this podcast, we've seen lots of radio lovers come and go. That might lead you to believe you've seen the most knowledgeable, radio-obsessed folks in the industry already, but believe me when I say they pale in comparison to Kat Carter. Kat, also known as The Radio Nerd, has made her whole brand based on knowing cool things about radio (if that wasn't obvious from her title). She started The Radio Nerd in 2019 after ten years of working in the industry, and has since grown to have tens of thousands of followers across her various social medias. To catalogue all the things she touches on would take ages, but to give you an idea: TheRadioNerd.com contains blog posts about the state of radio and voiceover, as well as preserving radio dramas of years past from legends like Orson Welles. Her TikTok features tons of helpful tips for aspiring broadcasters, as well as just being generally very funny. Her Instagram is full of neat little tidbits of information, history, and plenty of motivation for anyone interested on radio... The list goes on. The point is, Kat knows radio and isn't afraid to show it. We discuss Kat's radio days, especially her time as music director at CHUM FM in Toronto, which is where she says she really started to get her confidence up. She shares some of the secrets to building a great program, as well as what caused her to eventually pivot away from working in radio to pursue voiceover instead. If you consider yourself a radio nerd of any degree, you'll enjoy everything Kat has to offer. As mentioned, you can find Kat on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and of course her website. Transcript: Tara Sands 00:00:00 The Sound Off podcast. The podcast about broadcast with Matt Cundill starts now. Matt Cundill 00:00:10 Kat Carter is the radio nerd. She loves radio. A lot. Her social media really says it all. There are retro radios, transistor radios, clock radios, portable stereos, and those devices you used to record the songs off the radio. Kat has worked in Canada's two biggest markets, one of the best small markets, and today, is voicing from her studio just before I get my chance to chat with her. Kat Carter 00:00:37 All of our operators are currently assisting other customers. Please stay on the line and one of our representatives will be with you shortly. This call may be monitored for quality assurance. Matt Cundill 00:00:48 And with that said, Kat Carter joins me from her home in Toronto. Hey, Kat. Kat Carter 00:00:53 Hey, Matt. Matt Cundill 00:00:54 Why did you ever want to get into radio in the first place? Kat Carter 00:00:57 So my family was big into radio growing up. It was always on. We always had CBC on in the background at home, different music stations, too. And I just kind of became obsessed with radio at a young age. And I remember my love for radio really kind of punched in when I was, like, 9,10 years old. I started having sleeping problems at that age. I still do. And what I would do to just kind of not be so lonely at night was listen to the radio. So I'd steal my dad's Sony Walkman, the yellow one, and listen to FM radio at night, like midnight one, a type of thing. I would listen to CHUM a lot, and I'd say, you know what? One day that's going to be me. I'm going to be on air, and I'm going to help people at night who also have sleeping problems, and I'm going to be there for them so they have somebody to listen to and somebody to connect with at night. So that's kind of how I really got interested in radio in the first place. But it was also high school that kind of got me interested, too. My grade ten teacher, I always think of her because if it wasn't for her, none of this would have happened. She would always choose me to read Shakespeare aloud to the class. I was like, Miss, I hate this. This is so terrible. Like, why are you always picking me? And she said, you're one of the only people in this class who can actually read it out loud, so maybe you should join the Announcements Club. And I was like, oh, I don't know. It sounds kind of nerdy. It doesn't sound like my thing. Ended up doing it because she kept pushing me to do it, loved it. Became, like, my obsession. I was like, I have to find something to do afterwards as my job that is behind a microphone. So I basically was lucky enough to know exactly what I wanted to do out of high school and went to Loyalist College for Radio Broadcasting. That's in Belleville, Ontario. I had a great time there. It was a great school and yeah, ended up getting a job directly out of college. And here we are. That was back in 2009, so, yeah, it's been a while. That's how my love started. Matt Cundill 00:03:11 And that first job after Loyalist, that was up in Belleville, am I right? Kat Carter 00:03:15 Yes, that's right. So I was working for Mix 97 and CJBQ Rock 107, those three stations. It was definitely great experience, for sure. I started off in the promotions department because I knew that was going to be my ticket into the station. Getting your foot in the door seems to be the hardest part. So once I was able to get my foot in the door, I was quickly able to be on air. And then I was music director as well. And yeah, things kind of just blossomed from there, but it was great. Kind of starting in a small market, I was able to make my mistakes and learn and make those mistakes in front of a much smaller audience, which was nice, and then all I could go was up from there, so that was nice for me to kind of start small. Matt Cundill 00:03:59 What was the experience like going to a smaller town? I don't want to call Belleville a small town because there's a lot of people who live there and it's a great radio market. But when you're going from Toronto to Belleville, you're moving to a small town. So what are those feelings like when I'm like, oh, I'm not in Toronto anymore? Kat Carter 00:04:15 It was definitely different. I kind of knew what to expect. My mom's side of the family lives there, so I did kind of know what to expect. But at the same time, it was still quite different for me. Just the quiet at night that I would hear. I was like, what's going on? I don't like all this quiet because I'm used to being in Toronto and I'm being here by the subway and constantly hearing traffic and noise in people. So adjusting to that was probably one of the biggest things, but otherwise it was a nice place to live. They got the water there and great market to kind of just start in. So, yeah, I'm appreciative of my time in Belleville, and I was happy that it was able to move me on to Vancouver immediately after that. Matt Cundill 00:05:02 How long was it before somebody in Belleville said, we should get you to do the announcements, but now you can do them on the radio? Kat Carter 00:05:10 Yeah, gosh. It wasn't that long, to be honest. I don't even remember. It was like a few months and then I was kind of on air just doing weekend stuff, which I was super excited for because I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm actually on air. This is crazy. So, yeah, started doing weekends and filling in for people when needed. And then I did get that full time midday job as well as being the music director for all three stations. So I was quite busy there. It was insane. I was like, this is not okay, I need help. So I was very happy to move on to Vancouver because all of a sudden I don't have to be MD for three different stations, so my workload definitely went down after I left the small market. Matt Cundill 00:05:57 Okay, so you're not going to get a job as an MD unless you have a passion for music. Kat Carter 00:06:01 Yes. Matt Cundill 00:06:02 And now I'm thinking back to the young woman who is under the covers at 1:00 A.M. Listening to CHUM. Give me some favorite songs. Kat Carter 00:06:12 Oh, gosh, that would have been like late 90s, early 2000's. I love hip hop from that time, especially from the nineties. God, how do I choose? I love everything, to be honest. I think there's something great in every different genre, so I don't know, it's hard for me to choose. But yeah, hip hop is my favorite. Love some pop and I'm a big Motown fan. My dad got me into Motown, so I love Motown. Was able to go to the Motown museum in Detroit recently too, which was incredible. Definitely, definitely recommend that. It was just so cool being in that same space as those incredible artists. So, yeah, those would probably be the things that I would generally listen to at night. Matt Cundill 00:06:59 So now you're moving from the Eastern Time Zone clear across the country to Vancouver, so now you're far away. Kat Carter 00:07:07 I was, I was only 22 when I moved and I had moved by myself and I was like, panicking. I had never been out there, I had never been on a plane before. Like, this was so big for me, just such a crazy thing for me to do. And I think back and I'm like, oh, I was so young at that time, how did I do this? But I'm glad, I just kind of pushed myself to get out of my comfort zone and take that risk and it worked out so well. I loved living out west, it was so beautiful and I took advantage of the mountains and camping and hiking and just being outdoors and really taking in the beauty of our country. So just to have that experience, I'm so grateful that I got to go out there because it just kept leading to bigger and better things after that. So, yeah, I love the West Coast. I would absolutely go back there again to live out there. I miss it so, so much, but it was such a great opportunity to go out there, especially at such a young age, and start my career. And I started off as the assistant music director and on air and then moved up to music director and midday. So, yeah, it was exciting. Matt Cundill 00:08:21 Okay, so one of the things that we haven't mentioned about this trip out to Vancouver are the call letters. Is it Z95? Kat Carter 00:08:27 Yeah. CKZZ, Z95.3. So when I got there, it was actually Virgin Radio. Virgin 95.3. And then two years later, we did the whole flip back to Z95.3, which was super cool because that was such a huge station in Vancouver in the 90s. So it was just great to bring that back. And it was crazy how excited people were to bring Z back into the market. So it was wonderful to be a part of that. And that was kind of my first flip, too, just to get that experience of actually flipping a radio station and how much work that takes. Again, I'm super grateful for that because that's experience that I was able to take with me over to CHUM when we kind of did our little flip from CHUM FM to CHUM 1045. So that was good to have that experience. Matt Cundill 00:09:21 I'm thinking back to that building in Vancouver. I think I paid a visit to it in 2014, which would be, like, halfway between your time that you spent there. But I guess you got to work with Paul Kay. Kat Carter 00:09:33 I did, yes. I loved working with Paul Kay. We seemed to work very well together, and it was just easy to speak with him and work with him and learn from him and get all the insights about radio. And he's just so knowledgeable. So, yeah, he was a great program director to have because we did have quite a few out there at that time. There's quite a few coming in and out. But Paul was wonderful, and I know he's doing some really big things now, and he's doing so well. So I'm happy that I know him, and I'm super happy for him, too. Matt Cundill 00:10:08 And hands on with talent. So help me out here, because I did not get a chance to do this, but what's it like being in an air check session with Paul? Kat Carter 00:10:16 It's great. It's not, like, scary at all. Some PD's are just terrible and they're just trying to bully you, basically. But no, he would take the time to really lay things out, okay, try this or do this, and lay things out in a very nice way that made it possible to actually grow, because you were getting decent advice. I remember I had one PD who would just say, do what I do and never give anybody air checks. So to have Paul Kay actually take the time with the talent every single week, that was, like, huge for us. So I loved working with Paul. Matt Cundill 00:10:56 You already mentioned that you went back to Toronto to work at CHUM. There was a transformation at that point. So tell me about your experience in CHUM on Yonge Street. Were you on Yonge Street or Queen Street? Kat Carter 00:11:09 So this is the Queen. Queen and John so in that big building there, which was amazing, first of all, to be able to work in such, like, a heritage building in Toronto was super, super cool. But that was the moment that I finally got my confidence. It was weird. I felt like I was just living this lie almost, and I wasn't talented enough to be here and that kind of thing. But when I got at CHUM, I was like, oh, maybe I actually am good at what I do, because CHUM isn't going to hire people who are bad at this job. So that finally gave me the confidence I needed. Working at chum was amazing. I learned so much, especially about music scheduling. It is so cool how they schedule their music, and they take such care with it, and you can tell sounds great on the air. CHUM is an amazing station, but just the talent there and the people that I was able to learn from some great program directors there as well. It was definitely a great experience, something great to have on my resume, and I'm just happy that they hired me. Oh, my god, it was such an honor for me. Matt Cundill 00:12:20 Give me one little piece of the secret sauce of scheduling music. What did you learn about scheduling music at CHUM? You just have to tell me just one thing that you learned, because we don't want to spend all day dissecting their entire plan. Which is kind of weird, by the way. It's kind of weird because we always think, oh, we don't want to give away, like, the secret sauce in the plan. Yet it airs 24/7. Kat Carter 00:12:39 Exactly. The secret is doing every song by hand at CHUM. That's the secret. No auto scheduling. That's the secret. It really made me hate auto scheduling after that because we were really taking the time to literally do every single song by hand. So that would be the secret. Matt Cundill 00:12:58 Over at CHUM, you spoke a little bit about confidence, and that all. Through your time in Vancouver, you had the voices in your head that said, you're not good enough, and you shouldn't be there. Kat Carter 00:13:10 Yeah. Matt Cundill 00:13:11 At what point did you stop believing yourself? Or did you stop talking to yourself like that? Kat Carter 00:13:19 Yeah, it was probably around the CHUM days, to be honest. Because it's weird. I knew I was doing a good job. I knew I sounded good. I knew I was doing a good job as a music director. But I don't know, there was something that just kept telling me that, no, you're not good enough. You're not good enough. You're not good enough. You're not good enough. Constantly. And really, the only thing that helped was getting that job at CHUM. That finally just kind of gave me that confidence. Matt Cundill 00:13:47 Yeah. I asked that because there's a lot of people who actually get that, and they still don't stop listening to that particular voice. Kat Carter 00:13:52 I know it's very difficult. And to be honest, that's why I just started doing voiceover work, because this whole time I was like, no, I don't think I'm good enough, blah, blah, blah. And it was my husband who kept telling me, what are you doing? Do you know how good you sound? Because I'm always doing I'm practicing around him, and I'm just reading commercials around him, and he hears me every day. He's like, what are you doing? You are killing yourself here. You are really good at this. You can do well at this. And so he kind of pushed me to do it full time because I was like, I don't know. I don't know. So I'm super glad he did, because things have been working out pretty well in this last month, so I can't complain. So I'm always grateful for him to have him by my side, because he kind of pushes me to do stuff that pushes me out of my comfort zone, which is what I need sometimes. Matt Cundill 00:14:46 In just a moment, more with Kat, including getting underway in voiceover, sharing her mental health struggles on social media, and making the pivot out of radio. There's more on our episode page, including a transcription and how to connect with Kat, at soundoffpodcast.com. Tara Sands 00:15:06 Transcription of the Soundoff Podcast is powered by the Podcast Superfriends, five podcast producers who get together to discuss podcasting. Sharpen your podcast and creation skills by following the show on the Sound Off Podcast's YouTube or Facebook page. Kat Carter 00:15:22 This Podcast supports Podcasting 2.0. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now. If you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at newpodcastaps.com. Matt Cundill 00:15:35 Why'd you leave radio? Kat Carter 00:15:36 My mental health. Simple as that. I went through something pretty messed up when I was a teenager, and I never, ever had the chance to heal from that. I basically just had to go on from the day after it happened. And I never had a chance to really understand what had happened. And for so many years, I just kind of blocked it out of my mind, thinking, I'm okay, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, until finally, me not taking care of my mental health and addressing what had happened started to take a really big hold on me. And my depression got so bad. I've had depression half my life, anxiety, PTSD as well. So those three things just skyrocketed, and it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. And I said to myself, you know what? If you don't stop and take a break, you're not going to be here. Simple as that. So I said, My life is more important than a job. So that's why I left. The industry took a step back. I was like, okay, this is good. This is what I need. And it was amazing for me. I've been able to really heal and do the stuff that I should have done 15 years ago to help with my mental health. So this was very long overdue, and I am feeling amazing again. I feel back to normal. And I've had so much help from my husband and my family and friends, and I was actually able to share my experience with depression online, and a lot of people resonated with that, and I didn't think that was going to happen. I was so scared to tell people that I had depression, but when I did, wow, I was just so overwhelmed with the support that I got from people and the amount of other people who said, oh, I have depression too. I didn't want to tell anybody. I didn't want to know. So I just wanted to take the stigma away a bit and just let people know. This is something that a lot of people go through. It's really hard, very difficult. I couldn't even get out of bed for an entire year, leave the house, that kind of thing. It was so bad I could hardly speak, which was bad for radio. Like, how am I going to do my job, right? So that's why I left the industry. But about six months after I left, I started the radio nerd, because I was like, I need something radio wise in my life. I got to create something here. So that's how that got started. Matt Cundill 00:18:13 I'm so glad that you spoke about that. And I want to thank you, by the way, for being in a complete depression when you turned on Instagram one day, I can't remember if it was live or you just posted it, but I thought there's incredible bravery to go on and just go, you're looking at somebody who doesn't feel very well right now. And I thought that's just pure bravery to be able to do that and to go into say that and sort of eliminating all that stigma. Because 20 years ago I went through something very similar where it's like, I'm not feeling very well. I can't get out of bed and go to work and oh, by the way, you're on the air at two. Kat Carter 00:18:50 Yeah, those days were so bad when you've got to get out of bed and go to work and be on air and be happy. There were some days I'd just take my headphones off and just lay down on the desk until my next break, because I'm like, I can't do this. This is so bad right now. So it's very important that we talk about this stuff. It happens to way more of us than we think. And it's nice to see in the last 5, 10 years that more people are talking about this and opening up about it. It's super important. Everybody has mental health, just like we have physical health, and it's something that we need to take care of. And I'm just saying this off of experience, because before I'd be like, oh, mental health, whatever, I'm fine. But then when that finally kind of fully happened to me, I was like, oh, my God, this is so real, and this could be the end of me. So, yeah, I really had to take that time to focus on myself and my health because if I didn't, I would not be talking to you right now. Matt Cundill 00:19:58 I think you mentioned a little bit about your husband who sort of pushed you to try out the voiceover thing, but what sort of caught your eye that said, maybe I should get a microphone and maybe we should be doing some voiceover work and let's see what happens? Kat Carter 00:20:11 I guess it was the fact that I've always wanted to do voiceover full time. This was always kind of a goal of mine as well, but I don't know what it was. I had that push even though I didn't have the full confidence to jump right into radio, but I just couldn't make that same jump into the voiceover world. So it's great that I'm finally kind of getting over that. It's taken me so many years to just get to this point, and finally I just said, you know what, I just need to do this. What am I doing? I'm just making excuses at this point. I'm holding myself back. So I had to really get rid of those thoughts in my head again because those are those anxious, depressed thoughts like, oh, what's going to happen now? And I'm always thinking, oh, what bad is going to happen in the future? But I'm trying not to think like that anymore. I'm trying to be way more positive when it comes to the future. So I'm super excited to see where this year takes me. I don't think I've ever been this excited at the beginning of a year in a very long time, so I am super pleased and I see big things for myself in the next little while, so I'm just hoping everything works out well. Matt Cundill 00:21:25 I'm so happy that you're doing the voiceover thing because I saw you put a couple of things up on Instagram, and I know you were just reading what is fairly rudimentary when it comes to IVR and telephone, but oh, man, that was good. I liked it. Kat Carter 00:21:38 Thank you very much. They just blew up on TikTok too. One has like 1.4 million views and then the other two have almost 250 each. 250,000. So it's very exciting to see how much these videos have blown up. I've always thought, oh, whatever, this isn't exciting to anybody, like, hearing this stuff, but people seem to really like it. So I've been able to already grow, like, a decent following this month in the last week or two, so it's been incredible. So I'm just hoping that TikTok can continue to grow and then I can hopefully get some more gigs from there because, yeah, it's growing so much every day in the past, like week and a half. So it's exciting to see and it's really cool to see that people actually think what I'm doing is interesting and they like it so again, that's just me in my mind being like, oh, you're not good enough. So this has kind of been another confidence booster that I needed, just saying, oh my God, look how many people saved this video or saved it for later or shared it or commented on it or whatever the case is. It's like, oh, people actually don't hate me. Matt Cundill 00:22:53 I can't really explain anything about marketing other than sometimes you look at it and go, that's good. And sometimes people do pieces of marketing all the time and go, that's not very good. But the pieces that you put up on TikTok, I'm like that kind of looks and sounds like the person who would be telling me that I need to be on hold or that I have to wait or press one to speak to an operator or something like that. I don't know. You just seem to have that look. Kat Carter 00:23:16 Yeah, for sure. I get that. And you know what? I think my voice works perfectly for those types of things as well. I've always kind of had that announcer voice. I don't know what it is, but I can change it up for the phone messages and I love doing that kind of stuff. It's a lot of fun. So I'm always looking for more clients. Matt Cundill 00:23:36 You'll always be the radio nerd, though, to us. I love some of the things that you post up. I mean, you gave me a little bit of- it's not quite an unboxing, but you gave me a walkthrough on a piece of listening equipment where I could play a CD, but at the same time there was a spot for my iPhone or my IPod dock. Kat Carter 00:23:58 Right. Matt Cundill 00:23:58 And I'm looking at that going, that feels very 2011. Kat Carter 00:24:04 Oh, my God. Wow. You know what? And I love posting those videos. People seem to like them. I just head out to Value Village, take some video and leave. I never really buy anything, but yeah, it's good for content and I'm able to share some really cool radios, some stuff that's from the 40s they have there sometimes and then stuff that they have from like ten years ago. But yeah, I love sharing that stuff. It's fun to see those vintage pieces and holding them again and touching them and fiddling with the buttons and yeah, I love sharing that stuff and going out thrifting it's fun for me. Matt Cundill 00:24:43 Here you are. You're known as the radio nerd. What relationship are you going to have with radio over the next few years? Kat Carter 00:24:49 It's hard to say, because while I love radio so, so much and I think of it as like, my little baby, I know it's not the greatest for my mental health. And I know that I'm going to just stress myself out if I go back into the industry. I know I'm going to have to do, like, a million jobs, and it's probably not going to be worth it for me at this point, I think, because I've almost set those boundaries for myself. Like, no, I'm not going to allow myself to be overworked and underpaid and that kind of thing. So being able to work from home for myself, so incredible. So I don't know if I'll go back into radio, maybe like a part time, I don't know. I don't want to say. I do miss it, though. I really, really do miss it. Matt Cundill 00:25:42 The correct answer is to image radio stations as their voice talent. Kat Carter 00:25:47 Yes. You know what? That's the perfect way to stay in it. And I don't have to deal with all the drama, the day to day station drama and madness and nonsense that goes on, but you can still have that relationship with the station. So, yeah, I would absolutely love to get some more stations on as a client. I currently do just one and it's an alt rock station in Belleville, so do that for them. And yeah, I'm always looking to add more clients to my list and everything and just kind of grow my voiceover business and just see where things go. It's so exciting. Matt Cundill 00:26:27 Yeah, it really is. And just congratulations on all the success, not only that you've had in radio, but I'm really excited for some of the stuff that you've done online, helping people with their mental health, as well as just giving me a little retro tour of some old radios I might have used in the past. And as well now with voiceover, as we both record now on Rode mics. Kat Carter 00:26:50 Well, thank you so much. It's just exciting to feel healthy again and feel good and just be ready to get back into things. So that's what I'm most happy about is having my health again. That's the biggest thing. And I think that's something I've needs to remember. Your health is more important than your job. Tara Sands 00:27:08 The Soundoff Podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill. Produced by Evan Surminski. Social media by Courtney Krebsbach. Another great creation from The Soundoff Media Company. There's always more at soundoffpodcast.com.

Ian Leonard is the Chief Meteorologist at Fox 9 in Minneapolis. Sadly, this is a channel that I do not get in Winnipeg. Ian and I worked together on Stony Plain Road in Edmonton back in the 90's. What I didn't know is that he is a second generation broadcaster, grew up around the TV station and there was a moment in 2002 when he and his wife Christy decided to take a chance and head south. In this episode you will hear about Ian growing up in Edmonton and being apart of television at an early age. We share a few stories from 90's, weather related ones too including the Pine Lake tornado which I had completely forgotten about until we walked that part of memory lane. We also discuss how Ian has made pivots and transitions in how he presents the weather and what social media tool are most important to him now. There is also a lot we did not discuss including his battle with cancer.... and the extensive role he plays working with the Special Olympics. Here's an example. TRANSCRIPTION Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:00:00 The Sound Off podcast. The podcast about broadcast with Matt Cundill starts now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:10 Ian Leonard is someone I worked with back in the 90s in Edmonton. He was a TV fixture in that city for over two decades before making the jump down south. Today he works for the Fox Nine affiliate in Minneapolis KMSP as their chief meteorologist. Now, unlike other weather talent who did not evolve with the technology and delivery of weather over the years, Ian has and is now a leader in the space. He's going to tell you how he did it. And now Ian Leonard joins me from his home in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. You've never been arrested? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:00:45 Arrested? No. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:48 How about fined? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:00:49 Well, yeah, every time I go back to Edmunds and there's a thousand traffic cameras and I either get speeding tickets or red light tickets because driving in the United States of America is entirely different than driving in the country of Canada. People go 30 or 40 miles an hour in a parking lot. That's just the way it is. I go 30 or 40 miles an hour on the White Mud Freeway and I get a ticket. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:19 Did you grow up in Edmonton? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:01:20 Yeah, I grew up in the west end of Edmonton, a neighborhood that borders the North Saskatchewan River right there near the Quenell Bridge. I grew up in a Rio Terrace, which back in the day was I think it was developed when I was born in the mid 60s. So it was one of those neat, cool neighborhoods and now it's kind of one of, the neighborhoods that I think time is sort of forgotten. I think it's going through a bit of a gentrification. But yeah. I grew up in the west end of Edmonton. Went to Rio Terrace Elementary School. Every time we would go back with my daughters for something to go and see family, we'd go around the neighborhood. And it got to the point where we would visit Edmonton and I'd say, hey, let's drive around the old neighborhood. And now my daughters are like, no, we're good. We've seen where your friends used to live. We've seen where you crashed your bike. We've seen all the places. So for me, that's where I grew up. I always tell people where my home is, is wherever my wife and family is. So my home is Minneapolis, but I grew up in Edmonton. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:24 I didn't know this, and I feel like I should have known this. But you're a second generation broadcaster. Your dad was in broadcasting. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:02:32 Yeah. So my parents emigrated from England in the 50s. But before they came over, my father sang opera and my mother was a Chorus Line dancer. So my parents, obviously a fairly theatrical family, but once they came to Canada, my father was also a sign painter in Manchester, England, and came over and they needed an artist at CFRNTV, now, CTV Edmonton. He started working there in the 50s and he never got rid of that performance bug. He did radio programs. He was a theater critic on CKXM, which I think became the Bear, I'm pretty sure and he was the color and play by play guy for the Edmonton Drillers and the NASL. So he was always a big part of broadcasting and he never stopped singing. I was the kid who grew up, literally grew up in the television station. I would run around behind the scenes when everyone was doing everything else. I was the annoying little kid who was saying, look at me. Whether it was behind the scenes of Popcorn Playhouse or the CFRN News or hanging out in the green room where all the jocks I mean, all the jocks used to be live. And I got to hang out with All these amazing old performers, the Eric Nevilles and the Ed Kays and anyone from Edmonton who knows broadcasting would go, my God, those are amazing names from the past. I was the son of performers and coincidentally became a performer myself. People in the US talk a lot about how there's a lot of Canadians who are very funny and they're in the arts. And I tell everybody, and I don't know, there's no scientific data to actually back this up, but I tell people it's because in the heart of the Edmonton winter, when it's 35 or 40 below and there's huge snow drifts and you're a kid, you're not going out. Your parents didn't really go out back in the didn't have heated seats and heated steering wheels and remote starts. So you stayed home or you went over to a neighbor's house, and the deal was you entertained each other or you entertained yourselves. And that was a big part of my family. That's what we did growing up. We entertained each other. I think that's where my bug came from. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:48 That's become a bit of a recurring theme on this show. We had somebody on from Seattle a few weeks ago and talking about the Northwest being a place where people are inside quite often, and a lot of the creativity bug will come out. I've mentioned Winnipeg a few times, being the home of Neil Young, Bachman Turner Overdrive, and the Guess Who, because what are you doing? You're inside Portage Domain, 50 below. We're jamming. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:05:11 I think there's something to it. I don't know how you would ever be able to prove something like that, but I think it makes a good. point that maybe we've gone away from that in today's day and age. I mean, you're in Winnipeg right now. I'm in Minneapolis, we're talking like this, but we're not necessarily together as much. The old living room parties or the parties in your basement around your little tiny corner bar, I don't think those happen as much anymore. I think we're always waiting for the perfect day to get outside and have a backyard party, which we have all the time and I love. I love having people in my house. I love being entertained by people or having entertaining conversations or it turns into music trivia or karaoke or something. And I think in some way, obviously, we're coming out of the pandemic, maybe that has something to do with it as well. But I think we don't gather and entertain each other so much as go out and wait to be entertained. I'm more of a, hey, come over, let me entertain you. Let's all sit around. I don't care if we're drinking or reading or we're just hanging out. Look, that was a Canadian out. Did you see that? They just pop in every once in a while. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:15 How do you manage to keep that off the air? In Minneapolis, Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:06:15 I have a little tiny red light in the back of my head that starts blinking every once in a while. So here's a good one. So, when I first moved to America in 2003, and I was doing tornado coverage and I was talking about straight line winds, deracho winds that had blown over big 18 wheelers on I 80, it was a vicious storm. Thankfully, nobody was hurt, and I was on the air and I said a bunch of semis had blown over. And people are like, what is that? You mean a semi or semi? And I was playing hockey, of course, guy from Canada comes down to Iowa and I get to play hockey and guys are like, dude, you talk really funny. And there was a guy from Winnipeg who sat me down and he said, let's go over a bunch of stuff. And so a sticker that you put on your car is a bumper sticker. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:15 Bumper sticker. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:06:15 Decal. No, a decal. And I call it a deckle. And they said it's a decal. And the black top that goes on parking lots, well, that down here is asphault. And I grew up in a British house where it's asphalt. And there are just some words that are really hard for me to click away. A parcade. You go to the airport in Winnipeg and there's probably a parcade, right? Well, here it's a parking ramp. And a parcade is just a long strip of a street where you park your car. And so, over the years, you just learn to have the Canadian side of your brain, Shh quiet. You're not Canadian side of the brain to be quiet right now. It's the other side of the brain that's going to talk. And then the American side of the brain comes through and uses the proper words. But there are times when it slips out, like motorbike and motorcycle. Motorbike is people look at me like I'm cross eyed. They're like what's a motorbike? Well, a motorcycle. No, that's a motorcycle. It's a motorbike. Well, anyway, you get where things are going here. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:08:23 When I moved to Edmonton in 1994, the one thing that I knew was because all I heard about was it's cold and it might be boring for somebody who was coming from Montreal, which, by the way, it was cold, but it was certainly not boring. However, I knew that I'd be spending a lot of time working on being on the radio because that's what I did. I'd be at the radio station all day. Everything I did was radio related. I sometimes think that, to your point about creative places, that being inside and socializing, and you'll spend a lot of time honing your craft and getting good at what you do. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:09:00 And that's exactly the point. I think your creative juices are honed because you're forced. I mean, look, nothing against sunny and 75 degrees in San Diego, but when you're always out rollerblading on the boardwalk or surfing or hanging out with people outside, I think Mother Nature is kind of pulling you off course. More often than not, you're forced inside when the wind is howling and it's snowing. And I think that helps hone whatever skills you're trying. Maybe you're a master carpenter, right? So you get really good at putting together cabinets and using miter saws and all that other sort of stuff. But if you're using a different talent, if you're using a talent of your voice or your brain or you're an actor or you're a writer, I think Mother Nature does you a favor by keeping you inside. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:47 So you grew up on Stony Plain Road, effectively, because that's where the TV station was. That thing was way out on the outskirts of town when you were growing up, and now it's sort of been sucked into the city a little bit, but wow, it's almost like you grew up on the farm. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:10:05 Yeah, there was no West Edmonton mall. There was really no west you know where the TV station was, where CFRN now CTV Edmonton. It was a gravel road. It was basically developed to look like an old log cabin. Yeah and that's where my father worked. There are still hallways in that building that are original, which is always bizarre for me because I would walk down the old hallway in television sales and think, this is the hallway I used to run along with my dad's partner at the time at CFRN in the art department. His name was Al Thompson, but just an awesome guy and he had a daughter, Suzanne and we were the same age and we were the little kids that grew up in the television station together. And I always used to remember, and this is the hallway we used to play tag in. And then I'm walking along that hallway, I'm like, I work in this building. And when I first started working in that building, I was always known as Peter's son. And after my father retired and a couple of years later, it became, oh, you're Ian's dad, because my father wasn't in those hallways anymore. So it was a pretty big realization to me as as we went through the fact that my father and I had both worked in that same building for, I think, some total of 45 years which is really cool when you think about it. It's a long time for a father and son to have gone through the same building. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:29 What year did he retire and what year did you start? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:11:31 Dad retired probably 90, 91. And that's when I had come in, and that's when everything was beginning to change. My father was an artist. He used to hand draw the maps for the news back in the 70s when they'd say, well, there's been a terrible accident on 156th street and 76th Avenue and there were no computers. The camera cut to a hand drawn map. And that's what my father did in the art department during the day, worked for news and obviously the television station creating logos and sets and things, but computers came in right at the end of his career. And it was a daunting task, anybody who's toward their end of their career to adopt something new like that. But I think my dad just sort of knew. And in the meantime, my dad had always been a set designer. And that became more of his passion as he retired, was set design. And I would go and I would help him paint sets at night when no one was around. And we'd paint these iconic cityscapes in the background or trees to make it look like a forest out the window of the back of the set. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:34 So I'm thinking back at some point, the radio and the TV stations were owned by different entities. And I think I know when I got there in 1994, it was owned by Standard Broadcasting. I can't remember who owned CFRN at the time. Maybe it- was who did? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:12:54 I think it was Electra Home. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:56 Yeah. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:12:58 So it went from Dr. Rice, who started the radio and TV stations way back in the 50s, this old, elegant British man who my father worked for who was just a wonderful man who treated the employees amazing. I remember my father told me a story when he had TB in the he had to go to back then, they called it, I don't know, the Sanitarium or something. It was hospital for people with TB. And my mom didn't know how the family was going to survive. And Dr. Rice called and kept paying my father's salary out this whole time. My father was in with TB for months and months and months. And that's kind of that old school ownership back in the day. But it went from Dr. Rice to, oh, man, there was a Canadian company that bought them, then Electra Home and then Bell Media. And I think it's still Bell to this day. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:46 It is correct. And by the way, and they own both the TV and the radio now. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:13:52 Wow. Yeah I mean, when you came from Montreal, CFBR the Bear, right. It was such a juggernaut. It was a really exciting time to be in that building, both working on TV and seeing what you all were doing with radio and talk about upsetting the fruit basket and setting local radio, if not the national radio scene on fire. It was really cool for me to be near that and see that creativity that you talk about coming from Montreal and being locked in the radio station. And coming up, what are we going to do next? Who are we going to hire next? What are we going to do? I always think back to when you're first coming up in any business, it doesn't matter what it is, it could be construction or radio or TV or acting or accounting. I think when you're coming up, the camaraderie is so great because everyone's doing that same thing and working those same crazy long hours. But when there was a moment to hang out, it was really cool to hang out together. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:49 What was your first job at CFRN? Did you go straight to weather? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:14:52 No. Okay. My first job technically was commercials. My father would call my mom and say, they need a ten year old boy for a Lido Chinese food commercial and it's shooting at 3:30 today. And my mom would wait for me, and I'd walk out of school and she'd say, come on, we're going to the TV station. I'll do your hair when we get there, and I brought this shirt for you. And I would be in a Lido Chinese food commercial where I'd be like the little kid on camera who would have a bite of rice or an egg roll and say, this is great. And I remember, I think my first time I did that, I think I got a check for like $25. I was getting paid to eat an egg roll. It's like the kid who hangs around the backstage long enough, you get to become a roadie. I think it was just the fact that my dad was always pushing for me and trying to help me. So my first gig was wanting to get into news. When you think back to CFRNTV, back in, the people who were on the news were the most respected. It's like every single one of them in many different iterations was like Walter Cronkite. They were amazing news people and journalists, and there's no way a dorky little kid like me, who liked more entertainment than anything else, could even hope to be a part of it. But then when I look at that, I'm thinking, well, maybe I don't want to be on news. When I would see what the reporters would go out and the hard facts and the ups and downs of that job, I mean, the things that reporters cover to this day. And I always thought, well, weather is the one thing that looks like it has a degree of performance to it, a degree of performance mixed with science. And way back when we started calling it we, me and my father, started calling it that. Weather was more infotainment. I've always used that word to this day because weather doesn't have a script, there's no teleprompter for the weather. It's basically creating the forecast, doing the math, and then making ostensibly what is a really fancy PowerPoint. But that PowerPoint are those really fancy nifty graphics that are behind us on the green screen. And there is a degree of performance to passing along that information. And to this day, I can look up to heaven every day and say, thanks, dad, it's all about infotainment. So no. My first gig was doing some rock video stuff where I think for me is where I learned how to talk to people because somebody would say, hey, there's a band coming to town. Would you like to talk to them? And I'd say yes. And you'd get a press release. And it would have eight talking points about the band. And I'm confident that most people would sit down with that band in a little room somewhere and basically extrapolate on those talking points. And you could see it the first time I ever talked to a band, I could see it in the eyes, they're like, oh, God, here we go. He's going to go the talking points. And they would have the very canned responses. They were great. I mean, it was a well rehearsed dance. And I started thinking, there's got to be a better way to this. And you bring up Burton Cummings earlier, The Guess Who and I'll never forget he was doing some album or something, and I got a chance to interview him and he brought in a little electronic keyboard and he was sitting there, and we put a solo spot on him. And I was off to the side. And in the middle of the interview this is in the studio in the middle of the interview, he lights up a cigarette and my producer walks over and says, there's no smoking in here. And his handlers from the record company walked right up to the producer and said, he's Burton Cummings. And Burton Cummings just kept smoking during the interview. And that's the way it was. And I think I learned a lot about entertainment and dealing with people and talking to people. And I think I've tried to bring that somehow into what I do every day on the news. The way I interact with the co-anchors, the way I read people, the way I interact with news reporters. When we're talking about climate change or flooding or tornadoes or straight line winds or heat waves, I've always tried to make sure that it doesn't become a talking point. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:03 Yeah, actually, I think back to the 1987 tornado in Edmonton, which was big news, and you can't obviously do your regular forecast around that sort of infotainment, but I remember that being a big. The 80s were really big in Edmonton. I mean, the Oilers and then the TV news, you're all superstars, and Daphne and Darryl and just the incredible personalities that were on the television in that time because really it was the only game in town. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:19:32 Yeah. And it was a different time. There were limited channels, although we were starting to get us cable feeds from Washington. So you could watch ABC and NBC and CBS, but you never turned to them for news. You watched your primetime programming from the US. But you're right, if you were near a TV and it was 06:00 p.m., I'll tell you that television was turned on and it was locked on CFRN. And they were stars. They were big stars. Daphne Kune and Darryl McIntyre and John Barry and Al McCann. They were the quintessential television stars of Edmonton, Alberta. And I don't think you can ever cook that again to make it like that because there are just so many options out there for whatever you want to watch, whether it's news or weather or entertainment or movies. Here in Minneapolis, we started a new Fox National Weather Channel about six months ago out of New York, and you want to talk about trying to slay the dragon, the Weather Channel is massive. It's a huge part of people's vernacular, and working against it is something that we've done very well. But I would imagine that's what it was like in Edmonton in the 80s when you were at ITV or CBC, and every day you probably show up and go, we got to go up against CFRN again. And they had the reporters like Janice Johnson and Bob Mciuk and Fred Kazakov. I can't believe these names are even coming into my head. That's amazing. Earl Morgan. Do you remember Earl Morgan? He had a sign off. Earl Morgan, he had this crazy voice. I can't even do it. But all these people who were the TV stars of the day, and rightfully so, it was a great place for me to come up and learn about broadcasting and learn about journalism and learn about television. But back then you could also smoke on the news set or in the TV station and it was a different time and a different place. A good time and a very good place. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:21:46 The Sound Off Podcast. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:21:48 I remember were in our twenties and just being surrounded by all the talent. But it was so good to see these careers ascend throughout, you know, the decade. So I think of Carrie Doll, who worked her way from weekends and then eventually got the 06:00 news anchor position. You yourself, I think you were starting on weather on the weekends and then eventually you found your way into the 06:00 p.m. package, which of course, is where you wanted to be. So I just love seeing all the careers take off throughout the decade. By the time we get to the end of the 90s I think a lot of us will take that sort of next jump into our we're in our thirties at this point and we're looking to make moves. When did you know it was time to leave Edmonton? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:22:31 I didn't. There was no moment that it was like, AHA I had always been a part of, we have all these organizations the National Weather Association, the Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society, the American Meteorological Society, all of these organizations and they have conferences. I met somebody at the conference, it must have been 91, 92, who was an agent, and he said, hey, your stuff's really great. If you ever want to think about making a move to the United States, let me know. And I'm like, no, I'm going to buy a house in Rio Terrace right, right where I used to walk the streets as a little kid. And I'm going to work for the rest of my life on CFR NTV, and hopefully I'll make enough money to buy a cabin on Pigeon Lake and go out to the cabin on weekends. And my daughters will go to Rio Terrace elementary and eventually Stratford Junior High School and then St. Francis Xavier High School. All in Edmonton's, West End, all the places I went, that's what's going to happen. And there was one day where I'd been watching back in the day you got tapes, right? There was no real internet to be able to watch much. There was no YouTube. So watching tapes, we used to get these tapes that would float around of the best people in the business at the time. And many of them came from America. And I started thinking to myself, well, those guys and girls are really good, but I think I'm that good too. And I think that's a big thing now when you're coming up in the business, it's like being a baseball player. You think, Well, I'm pretty good. Why am I not playing at that level? I can play with those guys. Or whether it's figure skating or hockey or ringette or professional poker, whatever your thing is. I think everyone always thinks, why I want to play at that next level. I want to play against the best. And I think that was my moment. Lo and behold, probably six months after in about 2001, just after 911 into 2002, we started getting job offers. And that's great. It's almost like being at a dance and everyone's asking you to dance and it makes you feel really good. But we never thought right at that time that we were going to do it. There was no, this is what we're going to do. Start packing the boxes, make sure everything's ready to go. There was never any of that. My agent always said, anybody who wants to talk to you, you have to go talk to them because you never know where they're going to end up one day. And if you make a good impression, you make a friend. It could help you down the road. And so I said, okay. And we got a call to go to a job interview in Iowa. I'm like, Iowa? Honey, honey, go get the atlas. And we're like, okay, well, we'll fly to Iowa. And we flew to Minneapolis, where we had to connect to fly to Iowa. And as we're walking along the gates, the planes, as you're looking out the window and you're walking down the airport, the planes are getting smaller and smaller until finally you're getting on a ten seater. And that was the flight we took to Iowa. And it was great. They were wonderful, and it was just a terrific place. But they made me an offer and we left. And I said to my wife, here's what they want. What do you think? And we have probably one of the biggest fights we've had in our marriage in the Minneapolis airport at TGI Fridays because I thought it wasn't that bad a deal. And she's, like, not moving to Iowa and she was right. But when we got home, we'd said no. And so they kept calling, and the offer got better. We started thinking, yeah, we could do this, man. It was a great place. It'd be a great place to raise a family. And we said yes. And the rest is history. It's hard when you think about leaving Edmonton, the only television home I'd known, the only home I'd ever known and a place where all my friends were and we weren't in this new day and age yet. Where the cell phones we had back in the late 90s, early 2000s, they were rudimentary at best, even for texting. Never mind shooting pictures and keeping in touch and FaceTime and YouTube and all that sort of stuff. So it was like, my gosh, we're moving to a different country. And I'll tell you, to a person, the people at CFRN were so supportive, and they were like, you go, man, this is going to be great. It was awesome. And you mentioned Carrie and Darryl, monsters in the industry, who I learned so much from, but we learned so much from each other together. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:26:59 And full disclosure, we work with Carrie on her podcast, and I, in a million years, would have never, ever thought that Darryl would be back behind the microphone doing radio at 630 Chet. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:27:12 I mean, they are both so inherently talented. And I don't mean to be able to put a microphone in their face and talk and have a good voice and be able to carry a conversation and make things happen. I mean, talented with people, being able to just talk to people and be real. John Barry, may he rest in peace, he told me something way back in the 90s when I was coming up, and he said something that sticks to me to this day, something I still tell my interns when they start for the summer, don't fake it. Because the one day that you're either too tired to fake it or you forget to fake it or you don't quite fake it as well as you have been, that's the day everyone will realize that you're not the person that you've been faking it all along. So I've always said to people, look, if you like me, that's great. But if you don't, this is me. This is who I am. The guy you see on TV is the guy who's at home in the basement trying to paint boards to put baseboards on the wall, or coaching my daughter's soccer team, or buying groceries at the local store. And that's something that Darryl still has. That's something that Carrie still has. I hope to this day that I still have it. Just be real, just be a regular person. And they're so awesome. They're the best at what they do. And it's funny to say that, knowing that I used to share the anchor desk with them and at the end of the day, they're just really good people. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:28:45 I am thinking back to some of the people that have to some of the people that went through CFRN, who went on to careers in the States. I think of Pat Kiernan. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:28:56 Yeah. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:28:56 Leslie Miller. There are lots and to that I never really sort of made the connection. That why so many Canadian personalities do wind up down in the United States. Mark Criskey comes to mind. I think he's at KTLA. John Roberts, Fox News. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:29:15 Here's what I've always told people. I think we have such a especially Western Canadians have such a round pleasurable, for all intents and purposes, a flat accent. When you talk to somebody from the Ottawa Valley and there's the outs and abouts and things like that, and Eastern Toronto, there's definitely more of a Canadian a Canuck accent. But I think western Canadians have just such a flat accent. They could be from the Pacific Northwest or Montana or Oregon or all these other places. And I think when Canadians come here, we're very studious to where we're going and what we're going to do. Like JD. Roberts, when I see him on the air, I always tell people in the studio, I'm like, he used to be at Much Music. And people go, what's much music? And I'm like, oh, right, let me tell you about it. It was the MTV of Canada was great, but I remember J. D. Roberts back in the day and now he's John Roberts and he's really good on the air because I think he's really, really studious. Like Pat Kiernan, like Leslie Miller, like Mark Christie. These are all people who study and try and make their art better every single day. I try and do the same thing. I think the day you start phoning it in is the day you pretty much hang it up. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:27 I want to say you were in Des Moines, Iowa. Is that correct? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:30:31 No. Most people think about Iowa and they say Des Moines. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:36 Sioux City. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:30:38 No, not Sioux City. So I was divided into two halves in terms of television markets. Think about Alberta with Edmonton and Calgary and Red Deer sort of the little younger brother in the middle, but not much of a TV market. Edmonton has a northern half, calgary has a southern half in Iowa. Des Moines has pretty much everywhere I 35, which goes right down the center of Iowa and areas to the east. And I worked in sorry areas to the west, and I worked in eastern Iowa in what we call a fractured TV market. So it was Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Waterloo and Dubuque. So we really had kind of it would be like if Edmonton, Red Deer, Calgary and Lloyd Minster were all in a market, but they were all regarded as the number one city in that market. So there was a lot of traveling around and a lot of farm, a lot of farmers. So it was a lot like for me to go to Iowa from Alberta. It was these major centers, but surrounded by good, hardworking farming folks, and it was a good launching spot for me. I love Iowa to this day. I love the Iowa Hawkeyes. Our best friends live down in Cedar Falls, Iowa. It's a marvelous, wonderful state. But when you travel and you just say to people, they say, Where are you from? I'm from Iowa. They say, oh, is that potatoes? You're like, no, that's Idaho. It was great. I loved it there. We loved our time there. And we were really lucky that the company we went to work for valued hiring a Canadian and bringing a Canadian down and everything that that encompassed. You know, as a Canadian, you can't just go, I'm going to go work in America and just step across the border and start working. There's a lot of paperwork and there's a lot of lawyers and all that sort of stuff. And the company we came to work for, a company called Breakcom Broadcasting, understood all of that and jumped through all the hoops and did everything for us and made it seamless for us to literally step across the border and start working. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:32:33 And what came after Iowa. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:32:36 Right where I am now, Minneapolis. So living in the Midwest and Iowa and the upper Midwest here in Minnesota, I don't think a lot of people who don't live here or who aren't true weather geeks understand how much severe weather we get here in spring, summer and fall. We have more than our share of tornadoes and straight line winds and severe thunderstorms. Back ten years ago, Minnesota led the nation in tornado touchdowns. So there's a lot of really active weather around here, and tornado coverage is not like it was in Edmonton, not like during the 87 tornado or the Pine Lake tornado, of which I was on the air during the Pine Lake tornado at CFRN here. It's less about actual stone cold hard ratings, more about public service and doing the right thing and being on the television and getting that information across and being the calm voice in the heart of a storm there where people can get hurt and lives are taken and property is wiped out. And so in Iowa, the longest time I ever spent on the air was over 10 hours on the air and we had like 29 tornado touchdowns in our little corner of the world in the eastern half of Iowa. And that tape had made its rounds. As a news director, I think it'd be like talking to somebody in radio and they've been on the air doing breaking news on the radio for seven or 8 hours and you think to yourself, wow, that guy or girl is so good. They were able to carry coverage for five, six, 7 hours and I don't know where they learned it, but get me that person on the phone. And I think that's what happened with me with TV. But Minnesota kept calling and I drove up one day and I thought, man, this is as close to living and working in Edmonton as I will ever find anywhere in America. And it was like a match made in heaven. And they accepted me for who I was. I said, I'm not going to fake it. I'm not going to do anything big or crazy. This is me. And we got here in 2006 and we were still here. So I think we're doing okay. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:34:54 Oh, yeah, I think you're doing great. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:34:56 We might have to edit that part out if something happens. Yeah, 2006. I've been the chief meteorologist of Fox Nine in the Twin Cities since then. Ratings are ratings are good, but the TV that we put on the air is better than ratings. Man, there's a lot of great people in this market. Not just at Fox Nine, but at Fox Nine. Really great, caring people, people who care about the community. Listen, we've had I don't think it's any secret. Minneapolis said a rough go over the last few years and now we're coming out the other side of the pandemic and the riots. I think we're going to be a better city for it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:35:34 By the way, I want to thank you for reminding me about Pine Lake. I completely forgot about that tornado. A tornado of which that I was I think I was kind of in it. I was in Cameros broadcasting live back to Edmonton in the we were at, I think one of those shows. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:35:52 Yeah. It was like yeah, the outdoor festival. Yeah, some big fat what's that one called? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:35:55 I don't it might have been called Stage 13 and it was the rock version of whatever the country one was supposed to be. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:36:01 Big valley jamboree. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:36:02 Yeah. All of a sudden the warning comes on the radio and starts to warn the city of Edmonton about a tornado that's actually going to be going through where I am. And at which point we come back on after the warning had gone off and said, well, if a tornado rips through here, we will be attached to the giant Molson Canadian cans. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:36:24 Right. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:36:25 So you can we started to talk about our impending death, which did not make for a great afternoon show. And here we were sitting in trailers and welcoming these bands in to talk to the bands about all of our impending death because a tornado was on the way. And yeah, Pine Lake was probably about 100 camrose and that's yeah, I forgot about the devastation that took place there. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:36:51 Yeah, that was memory service. I think it was a Friday night. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:36:56 Oh, absolutely. It was a Friday afternoon when the warning bell started. By about five or 06:00, the system went through and there it was. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:37:06 And listen, I say we I'm lumping myself in there. We had a terrible infrastructure to warn people about severe weather way back then. The Pine Lake tornado came over Ridge and came down into the valley and hit the campground beside the lake and then skipped across the lake and touched down a couple more times before finally lifting. Breaks all those mists, right? Oh, a tornado doesn't happen near water. It can't jump over water, it can't be near a lake. Broke all the myths, but you couldn't see it coming. And we had no way to warn people. We didn't have outdoor warning sirens, of which a network we have down here in the upper Midwest. There's one in my neighborhood, there's one in every neighborhood. There's tornado sirens everywhere. We do really a good job, a much better job than we ever did. I remember after Pine Lake, I was on the Canadian Association Board of Broadcasters on their severe weather board. We were trying to figure out how we can do a better job on TV, on radio. How do we warn people about this dangerous, life threatening weather? You're thinking, well, we're talking to 54 40 here in the trailer. Hold on, boys. Apparently there's a storm coming. So guys, tell us about your latest. We didn't have a good way to tell people, and I think we're doing a much better job. I think even in Canada, they've come up with a much better job environment. Canada finally came on board with what we use down here in America called same codes, S-A-M-E which breaks areas of Alberta up into little bite sized pieces, little tiny segments that can be worn more efficiently than large geographic areas. So, yeah, Pine Lake, all I remember is I was on the air and in my ear, the producers were telling me that all of the air ambulances from Edmonton, Calgary and Red Deer were being scrambled. And that was something I'd never heard of. I remember getting off the air. I'll get emotional about it. My wife had come to the station because she'd heard what was going on, and she came to the station, and I got off the air, and I was gutted because people had lost their lives in a tornado, and there was no real way for us to warn them when I was on the air. And that was a terrible day. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:39:39 It was July 14, 2000. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:39:42 Yeah, it was. It was awful. I can remember exactly where my wife met me in the station. It was near the control room, just outside the newsroom in that sort of hallway that you would walk down to go down to the news studio, and she just gave me a big hug. But since then, I've been on the air for hundreds of tornadoes, and I don't think any of them affect me any differently than that day. It's kind of like it's a wrong thing to say, but it's us, all of us, in the news business and in the weather business against the tornado. Inevitably, tornadoes win severe weather winds, but if one family, if one farm, if one group of people in a campground get that warning, get that voice of reason, and do what they have to to stay away from the storm or get out of the storm's way, then you're doing what you're supposed to do. But I still do get emotional. It's emotionally draining to think about how powerful and strong and how deadly these storms are, and there's not much we can do except get on the air and shout from the hilltops and make sure people know it's coming. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:41:02 As you're telling this, I'm thinking back to an episode of WKRP where they sort of encapsulized that feeling that you have as a broadcaster trying to warn people about an event. And in that episode, it was a tornado, and I think it was the program director, Gary Sandy, was the actor who told I think it was a child to go downstairs, shut the door to the basement. But, yeah, what you're talking about was captured in an episode, and I thought they did a really good job. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:41:31 That was a comedy. You'd watch it for Dr. Johnny Fever and Venus Flytrap, and everyone knows the dropping turkeys from a helicopter Thanksgiving episode, and it was a comedy. And I think every once in a while, what they did really well in the is they took those comedies and made them dramedies, so they infused some drama into them just to show that life can be real. And, yeah, I remember that episode. And it is an emotional time covering severe weather, both before, during, and after. And I think that's what I went to, what I said earlier about phoning it in once it doesn't become that way for me, then it's time for me to be that guy who used to be on TV, but I'm still that guy. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:42:13 And further to that. WKRP also did an episode involving the tragedy with The Who where eleven kids died at the concert and they had no choice but to do it because, hey, we're a radio station. We're set in Cincinnati, and this happened. And the network was not happy that this was going out, but they went and did it anyway. And of course, it was the right thing to do. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:42:33 Yeah, I think when we reflect what happens around us, we're better broadcasters. They were broadcasters. I mean, there was a television show, they were actors. But even then, still, when they reflect what's going my wife and daughter love my youngest daughter, she's 17. They love watching Law and Order SVU, and they're going through a whole segment of it right now where they're wearing masks on SVU. They're reflecting what actually happened to all of us with the masks and the pandemic and the things shutting down and everything going on. And there's a part of me that values that so much that they're not just brushing over it. And it's the same with those two episodes of WKRP. And I think it's important also to say, Matt, that people like Carrie and Darryl and myself and our anchors here, randy Meyer and Kelsey Carlson and Amy Hawkert, all of us, we're not so animatronic that we're not unaffected. By the things that we have to talk about on the air, but we have to talk about them, and we have to stay unaffected at that moment in time. But there's plenty of time after you get off the air, and it can be quite emotional. There's no way for these things not to affect you. So I talk about infotainment and think about it. Most of the time when I'm on the air, it's winter and it's 28 degrees and there's snow on the ground and it's crystal clear bluebird sky, or it's sunny and it's 72 and there's no storms. And those are great days, and that's when we can have fun and do silly things. But there are times when the weather is serious and it turns deadly. And my little moniker here is hashtag Ian sleeves rolled up. That's when, you know if you turn on the TV and my sleeves are rolled up, you absolutely know that there is something that I'm about to say that you need to listen to. And if I could do anything, I'll do it. I remember one time we had a tornado warning and I was at a barbecue and it sort of came out of the blue. But I have this incredible team, or I'm a part of an incredible team is probably a better way to say that of awesome meteorologists. And we're always looking. So I had one meteorologist on the air and I went in because we like to do tag team coverage. I was wearing a pink Oxford button down shirt, and for a spell, my shirt was trending on Twitter and I'm like, well, that's not right. And then I thought, well, no, as long as people are watching, it shouldn't matter. That means they're watching and they're getting the warnings. But we've retired the pink shirt since then, Matt. It's down here. It's in my basement, hanging in the closet. Lovely shirt, too. I wish I could still wear it. Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover) 00:45:21 This podcast supports podcasting 2.0. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now. If you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at newpodcastapps.com. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:45:34 So I moved to Winnipeg in 2006 and you moved to Minneapolis at the same time. The two cities separated by 8 hours. I think if people in Winnipeg want to do some serious shopping, you go to Minneapolis and you take in a game. It could be a hockey game. So I went to see a Vikings game and there you were. You were up on the big screen doing a little cut in for Fox. I don't know why you would need to do a weather hit, because the game is indoors. At the time it was at the Humpty Dump. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:46:03 Well, Matthew, we call that marketing. It's a way to reach more people who are a captive audience. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:46:10 But then there I was going, hey, look, I know that guy from like three cities ago. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:46:15 Yeah, I didn't call him when I was here in his city, but I know him. But I've already guilted you off the air on that, knowing full well that the next time you come here, you're going to come and stay at my house and say, you know what, come and we'll do a podcast from my basement, just me and you, and we'll invite a whole bunch of people. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:46:32 How are people going to know who's who on the podcast then? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:46:36 We'll wear name tags. Oh, no, wait a minute. This is radio. We'll have sound effects. Someone will have a little squeaker. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:46:46 It'll be like that wacky radio morning show. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:46:48 Yeah, it will be the afternoon drive from Lenny's basement. And we're back. I think that we could do a video one. We could do a video one. We'll get some Vikings or some Minnesota Wild players and we'll just have some fun. And of course, make it all about Minnesota and me. But you can come too. That'd be fun. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:47:04 I'd love to do that. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:47:06 I think the one thing that what you just said, people from Winnipeg, it's important to note that our signal does go. I think you get us on cable up there, don't you? Or maybe you don't. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:47:16 I'm trying to remember if I do. I know one of my Fox affiliates is out of Rochester, which is just fine with me because I'm a Buffalo Bills fan. So I can get a little bit of action out of that, really. But I think the other Fox affiliate is yours. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:47:31 Thanks for your support. Thanks for watching, really appreciate it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:47:34 I do need to ask you, though, tell me about the importance of social media to your job, because I know you're active on Twitter. You're one of the first to get the warnings out. Is that where you go first? Is there an order of operation when there is a weather disaster into getting this stuff out? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:47:49 That's a great question. So, yeah, very active on social media. There are times that other weather teams, other meteorologists, not just here in Minnesota, but across the nation, will start talking about storms a week away. And I've always thought that's too far. Look, I'll be the first to tell you that we don't get it right all the time. OOH, big secret. I've unlocked the secret to weather. But that happens. We're forecasting chaos every day, and we're trying to march that chaos forward in time and tell you what's going to happen. And sometimes it doesn't happen. But what we're really big on is making sure that we can start to focus people two days out from the possibility of severe weather in a certain region. We won't talk about severe weather types because all that happens day out. But we'll say, look, if you have plans outside on Saturday and it's Wednesday, I have a moniker down here that I always say on the air. And actually it's something that started at CFRN in Edmonton. I used to say, Stay Sky Aware, and Darryl would tease me about it all then, what a silly thing to say, of course. And that was my Darryl impersonation, thank you very much. So I still say it to this day, and it's become our big hashtag on social media as well. Stay sky aware. Saturday, some storms are coming through. Just know that and keep an eye on the forecast. So then Thursday we can hone that down. Friday, we can hone it down. We can talk about storm types, probably storm timing, and a much better idea of location because our computer programs and our computer modeling has gotten so much better. It's still not perfect, but it is so much better than it was 510, 1520 years ago. So once we get into storm parameters day of, that's when we become very active on social media. So all the warnings are pushed out on social media if you can't get in front of a television. But the one thing we've done at Fox Nine is we created a weather app that will follow you wherever you are in North America. And if there is any type of a weather warning, where your phone is located, where you are co located with your phone, your phone will go off and it will tell you exactly what's happening. So you talk about Pine Lake and a bunch of people in a campground playing what we used to do yahtzee at the picnic table when we camped as a family. So there was no way to get the warning for the Pine Lake tornado it was almost impossible today. If you've got your cell phone with you and you have cell phone coverage and you download the Fox Nine weather app, wherever you go in North America, whether you go to the Yukon or you go to Key West or Catalina Island, to the Thousand Islands, you're going to be covered. And that's something we're really proud of, and that came out a little commercially, and I don't want it to be that way, but I would love it if people download it. We don't get anything for it. It's a free app. It's a free service. It's public service for us. And that's why we're on the air. That's why we're putting the warnings out on Twitter and on Facebook and on Instagram, and even when there isn't severe weather, man, I'll tell you, are you on the social medias? Are you on the Googles and the Twitters and the Face heads and all that sort of stuff? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:50:49 I'm everywhere. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:50:50 Yes. It's like an animal that doesn't stop eating. It's Insatiable. When you put out one thing about your dog my dog is Insta famous. When you put something about your dog or your daughter winning a championship soccer game, it's amazing how it can just keep going. And you have to pace yourself or you have to schedule some posts, because otherwise you can be on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram, all these things constantly, 24 hours a day. And I don't want that. I still want my family time. I still want me time. I'm still training for triathlon. So I need that time to if I'm out for a run for 20 miles, I'm not going to update social media. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:51:34 How much time do you get during the news package? So way back in the 90s, it would be sports and weather would sort of be towards the end, maybe four minutes for the sports and four minutes for the weather. What's the difference between then and now? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:51:53 Wow. We, the weather teams have a much greater voice, a much greater impact. And so every day we'll have an editorial meeting about 130 in the afternoon, and we talk about what and how we might cover the stories of the day, whether they're hyper, local, national, or international. But a part of that call is also the weather. And I'll say the weather has to be a part of the first block probably lead tonight because of the strong storms coming through the day. Tomorrow we'll be in the A block, we'll be in the B block and in the C block. So there's a much greater presence because weather is a much bigger factor for people's lives going through the next 24 hours. Now, with that said, they'll also be it's sunny, it's 70. It's going to be this way for four days. Weather has a very small role in the overall package today, but yet it still has a role because people want to know what's going to happen. So we have a much greater voice now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:52:47 Yeah, you're going to wind up anywhere on the clock. Right. Because really, the weather does show up within the first quarter hour if it's severe, and maybe a little bit later on if it's not. At some point we are going to have to talk about the weather. Just depending on how important it is, it's going to be interwoven into the news package, which is totally different than the way it used to be. Obviously, it's better. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:53:10 Yeah. No, even when there was a big deal in weather back in the day, I remember it didn't matter. You still had your three and a half, four minutes at this point in the show. Go back to the weather center, the weather office, and we'll let you know when we need you. And now that's changed, it doesn't matter whether you're a podcaster like Matt, or a hot dog vendor, or a millionaire investor, or a school teacher, or a stay at home mom, or a stay at home dad, the weather is going to affect you in some way in the next 24 hours. It might be really great, it might be really bad, but the weather will affect you. It will affect your decisions, whatever they are, for tomorrow. And I think we've learned that over the years, that you can't just have the hippy dippy weatherman come through at some point of the broadcast every day and then just go away. The weather is a big deal to people. It affects you in so many different ways, and we know that. And we also know that there are days that affects you, that it's not overly serious and we can have some fun with it. And those are great days. Those are really great days. Because whether if you think about it, if you have an hour of news, an hour of local news, probably that first ten or 15 minutes is the really serious stuff. It's everything that's serious in life. So that if the weather for the next three or four days is going to be very calm and lovely and there's nothing going on, it's my chance to not be a goof, not be a clown, but to perhaps bring just a minute or two of levity. You don't have to have a full belly laugh when it's a levity type forecast, but at the end, maybe your mouth, instead of being in the neutral position, is turned up on the edges, and we just made you perhaps a little happier. And so going all the way back to what I said earlier, weather in so many ways is more infotainment than any other part of the daily news. And it can be hardcore serious or it can be a little bit of fun and levity, but whatever it is, we hope that you tune in. There's a lot of ways to get weather. You can get weather on your iPhone now, so we. Hope you tune in for the weather from me. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:55:23 You're the chief meteorologist, which also means you're going to be in charge of some of the talent. Tell me about the talent coming up today. Listen, we don't want to sound like two old guys talking about the way it was even though we've already done that for the last like hour. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:55:36 We're the old guys from the muppets in the balcony. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:55:41 How do you evaluate talent? What do you see? What are you looking for? Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:55:44 Well, there is a difference in overall news talent versus overall weather talent. Weather talent comes with specialized training and news talent comes with specialized training. In journalism where we're trained in meteorology. The hours of television are, I think, the one thing that tends to smack people as they're trying to get into this business because there is no nine to five. It's a lot like radio. If you want to be on the best show in radio, you're on the morning show or the drive, the afternoon drive. But those generally aren't places you start. And in television you'd start weekend mornings and then you might go to weekend evenings and then you would maybe go to weekday mornings and then weekday evenings. And it's funny, people look at me and they're like, so what are your hours? I'm like, well you watch me at 1030 at night so you know I'm there. And you also watch me at 05:00 in the afternoon so you know I'm there. I'm basically a second shifter. I work mid afternoon all the way to 11:00 at night and that's the hours of this job. And I think what you have is people coming into the business. There are people who know that and they're like, yeah, I'm signed up, I'm ready to go. And I'm committed to those hours. And if I want to work as a meteorologist or a newsperson or a sports broadcaster, those are my hours. But I think most of society has also gone to this sort of hybrid thing. So you've got your friends who work at insert accounting firm here or advertising firm or major Fortune 500 company and they work nine to five and they work hybrid. So they're in the office a couple of days a week. Our job is so different, Matt. I mean my job, I have to be there. You must be present to win. I don't know if that's going to change. I don't think it will because that's the job, that's the gig with our high powered weather computers and our forecast models and the way we present in the studio. During the Pandemic we were all at home and it was really hard. I mean, let's face it, there was a lot of heavy things going along with the daily news. I e the Pandemic, but working from home to do my job, it's not really the way the job is designed. And maybe that will change as the next generation comes in and figures out a way to redesign that. I guess if there's somebody listening, they're like, wow, I'm doing my meteorology degree right now, and I really want to do it, but I'm not sure I want to work nights or weekends or mornings. I would say that you should shift your focus and go into what we call operational meteorology. Go work for Mobile or Shell or an airline or there are a lot of companies that need meteorologists for what they do. But in TV, I think we're kind of married to that weird time of day that we work. And there are some amazing younger people coming into the business right now who are so dedicated. And it's funny, you look at them, you say, oh, that's me. You know what? When I first started at CFRN, people would walk into the studio and the studio would be black, except for they have these little work lights that are up in the rafters, and there's only a few of them. And I would be on the weather wall rehearsing. No cameras, no lights, just rehearsing in that space. Because the weather wall is kind of like a stage, a very small stage. And I wanted to get better at being in that space and owning that space and being a part of that space. And that's one thing I always try and pass along to interns, is the infotainment part. You've got all the info, you've got the degree, you've got the meteorology, you can do the math. You're really good at forecasting. Now let's get you good at the stage presence part of it. We've got a couple of beauties right now coming up that I think people are going to love. I say beauties like a Canadian broadcaster talking about hockey, not in the physical sense, but. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:59:43 Man, you letting your hoser show again. Ian Leonard (Guest) 00:59:47 I know, isn't that terrible? Every once in a while that comes up and I'm like, oh, I have to explain what that means. If you're a real beauty, that has nothing to do with the way you look. It's who you are. It's your style, the way you do things in TV right now. I think you're going to see this new broadcaster come along who's good at so many things, not just meteorology, not just journalism, not just anchoring. I think you're going to see this new hybrid of persons start to come along that companies will start to adopt. And we've already started it. Instead of just a reporter going out with a photographer, a photojournalist, now we have reporters going out and shooting their own stuff. And that started all the way back with the A Channel in Edmonton back in the 90s, I'm sure you remember that, Matt, the A Channel was out shooting things themselves as the reporters. Well, that's come first full circle. That's come back and citizen journalists, you think about how powerful the tool is in your pocket and an iPhone or an Android to be able to record and report and show people what's happening in your neighborhood, good or bad. And I think that makes us, as the overall broadcasters, much, much better storm chasers, do an amazing job for us, gathering the data on storms that we just can't do. We're locked in the studio, making sure that we're getting the message through to you. And you've got these storm chasers out there. I'll tell you, some of them are a little crazy, but 99% of them are incredibly good at their craft and also very good at the craft and the job of meteorology. I think broadcasting is in really good stead right now with the next crop that's coming up, the next version of broadcasters. And I'll be that old guy in 20 years going, oh, look at this. This is not the way we used to do it. What are these kids doing now? But my father went through that and his father went through that. And I think it's okay. I think it's okay. You have to embrace change. You have to be ready for change to move through whatever industry you're in. And I think we'll see it, but I think it's going to be a really cool change, and I think technology is going to lead the field. What we're doing right now. You're in Winnipeg, Manitoba, canada. I'm in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And we're able to have a discussion about how things are changing without realizing. You're in Winnipeg and I'm in Minneapolis. I mean, things have changed. We're already there. I think exponentially. Things are going to change quicker now than ever before. And that may leave people like you and I on the sidelines saying, why are these kids look at this. But that just means you can come over and we can have a drink, and we can sit outside and talk about the old days. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:02:24 Okay, well, listen, I'm coming down. I'll come and see you. You're in Eden Prairie. I'm going to knock on all the doors in Eden Prairie, Minnesota, until I find you. And then I want to go, you can make me a drink in your bar in the basement. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:02:36 Yeah. And we'll go downtown and we'll go to a Vikings for a while. I'll just show you around. It's minneapolis. The twin cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. I'm not sure people understand what that means. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:02:47 You don't need to show me around Minneapolis. I've been there so many times. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:02:51 Look, you've been here as a tourist, I mean, as a regular, everyday Joe. I'm going to show you places you've never heard of. I'm going to take a place d you didn't even know existed. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:03:02 I already know that. I'm a big foodie, so I know these places. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:03:05 You're an Internet foodie. I'm talking about a local foodie. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:03:09 All right, you give me a couple off the top of your head. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:03:11 What kind of food do you like? I like everything okay, well, that's a cop out. Tomorrow, you know that it's all over then. You don't know why, you don't know how, but you just know you are going to cease to exist. What are you going to crave to eat tonight? This is a big question and it's really look, I know it's a hard question because I would have trouble filling in the blanks there, but what would it be? Could be a type of food, could be a style of food. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:03:42 Well, I'd probably get some French cuisine. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:03:45 Well, I mean, that's the Montreal are in you, isn't it? Matt Cundill (Host) 01:03:48 Yeah, of course. I'm going right back to my favorite meal, which is a nice midday lunch in Montreal with a bottle of wine. 3 hours and going for a nap. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:03:57 Yeah, we were in Montreal two months ago and I think I gained 15 pounds. Have you ever been? Matt Cundill (Host) 01:04:03 Sure you did. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:04:04 Have you ever been to the Tuck shop? Matt Cundill (Host) 01:04:06 Absolutely. Tuck shop is great. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:04:08 My God, it was. We ate at all the places we were supposed to, which we always do when we go there. But the tuck shop was unbelievable and the people, the servers were amazing. Everything about Montreal, I love. I absolutely love. I mean, the food seems ancillary to everything that Montreal is. It's an incredible place coming here. If you were to really do a hard dive into the local restaurant scene, we have a lot of James Beard Award winning chefs here. We have a lot of James Beard Award nominees here, but we also have a lot of great little sous chefy places that barely existed until some guy found some place with ten tables and put them in there. And depending on what you want, there's a little Belgian cafe out in Victoria, Minnesota called the Noble Lion, and it's just dynamite. I think there's maybe eleven tables. And when we've got nothing to do, my wife and I head out there. It's about 20 minutes from eating prairie, so it's out there. But there's also great places. Chef Vincent just opened a new place downtown called Chloe by Vincent. He was the French chef in Minneapolis, and the pandemic took a hard hit on him and he just opened this new joint and man, my wife and I were there on Saturday night and she said, these are the best scallops I've ever had in my life. And by the way, the best poutine I've ever had outside of Canada was at Chloe By Vincent on Saturday night, and my wife said the exact same thing. And that's a big deal when you can make good poutine, not just a sloppy bowl of French fries and gooey cheese and nasty gravy, when you can create a dish that is poutine and it's a dish vincent's unbelievable. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:05:55 The restaurant recommendations, by the way, are going to be in the show notes of this episode for anybody who's going to Minneapolis and needs them. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:06:02 Oh, I will get you a bunch. Yeah, I'll email you a whole bunch. And they will be from the most bougie to the most street wise and everywhere in between. Minneapolis and St. Paul are really great restaurant cities. The Twin Cities is more like 30 cities that are all smashed together and you don't even know you're moving from one city to another. You just go through a set of lights and suddenly you're in another city. It's starting to spread out into the suburbs now. And the food scene, you can't do it in a weekend. You can try, but it'd be impossible. You can't do it in a week. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:06:41 No, I remember a couple of nice neighborhood places. I know Grand Cafe when it was there. I enjoyed that. I had a good meal there. I like going up the Loop into La Grassa. 112 Eatery Street bar. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:06:54 LaGrasse is great. 112 is amazing. The egg and harissa sandwich at 112, it will knock your pants off. Which is not good when you're out in public. Nonetheless, it will do it. Lagrasse is fantastic. Smack shack. Gosh. What else is down there in the Loop? LaGrassa. Oh, Black Sheep Pizza is I know I just said the word pizza and most people who are foodies are like, oh, my God, did he dress any pizza? Good God. But it's fantastic. There are chicken wings in this city that will change your world. Change your world. The Monte Carlo downtown does a dry, semi Asian rub on wings that I have friends who come here. Just Brian Rashad from TSN during the NHL All Star Game. I took him to Monte Carlo and we had the dry Rub wings. And if you ask him to this day, he'd be like, yeah, they were I don't know what he loses his words. You can't describe him. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:07:56 I'm a big fan of, by the way, of starting the night out with drinks of Prohibition in the W. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:08:01 Yeah that' a good one. Little spendy, but very cool. You know the W Hotel is in the Foche tower. That was the original home of the television station that I worked for, Fox Night. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:08:13 That's right. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:08:13 Little Trivia. Little trivia for you there. The foche downtown. Gorgeous. Right there off Marquette. Beautiful. Lovely. But, oh, my God, we have to get you away from there. I don't know the suburbs because there's some really cool stuff happening. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:08:26 Oh, no. I'm always getting in an Uber and going out to eat. I'll go to the Loop, but generally in the downtown area unless I'm hungover and need to drop by Hell's Kitchen for one of those big Caesars. I'm sorry. For one of those big Bloody Marys. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:08:42 What did you just say? How dare you try and Canadianize our drink? Matt Cundill (Host) 01:08:47 That was a big mistake. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:08:49 And funny. You know the funny thing? This is the greatest thing when you live in America and you've lived here for a long time and Canadians come to visit and the number would they're like, if I could just get a Caesar? And you're like, Dude, no, let me make you Bloody Mary, and they look at you like you're about to give them a shot of cod liver oil from the 1950s. Here's your medicine. Time to take your medicine. A good Bloody Mary blows away a good Caesar by 1000%. There, I said it. Okay, there. Bring the hate mail. I said it. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:09:21 I would agree with you, especially if you pick the right tomato juice. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:09:26 The right mix is key, and I'm going to even email you. There's a mix down here called True Tru, and there's a couple of, umlats, a couple of dots over the U. It'll change your world. I think I just made an endorsement. I didn't make that. I'm looking at a bottle on my bar right now. I drink it by itself with no vodka or anything in it. I drink it all the time when I'm training for my triathlons. I need lots of sodium, and so I drink Bloody Mary mix. Isn't that bizarre? I'm a weird person. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:10:03 No, it's good. I like that. Also, by the way, I had spoon and stable on my list. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:10:08 Yeah, very good. I think sometimes when you develop a restaurant that is that good, I think you're just bound to disappoint some people who go there. Not me. But that's a tough one. That's a top notch restaurant. So when you go there, it better be top notch for you, because when you go online, it's top notch. I'm still excellent. Fantastic restaurant. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:10:31 Awesome. Ian, it's been awesome talking to you again. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:10:36 Has it really? Matt Cundill (Host) 01:10:37 It has. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:10:38 I talk a lot. I don't give a lot of information. They're massively, long, soundbites. I don't know. The best part for this, and I don't think anybody out in the interweb world would care, but the greatest joy I have still in my life as a 57 year old dude is reconnecting with people who have in some way helped shape my life. And you're one of those people. You were always so kind and so generous with your time. You let me just come and sit in the studio in the Bear and just hang out or we'd vent or just laugh or make each other laugh. And that type of friendship, I think, doesn't change over time. When you have a friend like that, those are the kind of people that you don't talk to for 15 or 20 years, and then you start talking. You're like it's like forest gum set. We're just like peas and carrots. Not that anybody out in the world would care, but this has been super cool for me just to hear your voice and hang out. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:11:43 Oh, listen, we'll pick up right where we left off when I come see you in June. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:11:48 I'd love it. You're absolutely welcome. You can't book a hotel, Ian. Uber will take you around and I'll have a variety of fantastic Bloody Mary mixes ready for you here at the stately plush but not overly ostentatious Leonard man all right. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:12:05 Can't wait, man. Thanks a lot for doing this. Ian Leonard (Guest) 01:12:07 Hey, Matt. Thank you. This means a lot. We'll talk soon. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 01:12:10 The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Kundal, produced by Evan Sirminsky, social media by Courtney Krebsbock. Another great creation from the Sound Off media company. There's always more@soundoffpodcast.com.

This week, we've got another long-time radio industry veteran, Rob Creighton. You might not know his name up here in Canada, but down in the States, he's been running shows from Lubbock, Texas to Chicago, Illinois for the last few decades. Nowadays, Rob has moved away from the stations and back to his home state of Missouri to work with Townsquare Media. They're a name you might recognize if you've followed the show for a while- we've had a few guests who worked with them, like Melz on the Mic, and that's partially because I just really like how Townsquare does things. Companies that make radio ads are dime-a-dozen, but Townsquare tailors to the digital side too. If you've listened to the show at all before today, you'll know exactly how important that is to me and why, and if you're curious about how they do it, you can check out some of their service offerings here. Rob and I dive into his history on the radio and in the program director's chair, as well as what prompted his move off the airwaves and into Townsquare's office in Sedalia, Missouri. As I said earlier, Missouri is his home state, and Rob couldn't be happier to be back, especially working for a company that lets him find a balance he's always craved. If you want to work with Townsquare, you can check out their main website here. You can also conenct with Rob directly on LinkedIn. The same day we released this episode, Fred Jacobs from Jacobs Media wrote a piece on his daily blog It takes a lot about Townsquare Media's digital initiatives which are significant. Please read. Transcript: Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:00:01 The Soundoff Podcast. The podcast about broadcast with Matt Cundill starts now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:10 This week we're going to be joined by Rob Creighton, who works as a content lead for Townsquare Media in Sedalia, Missouri. There are three stations there, including Awesome 92.3, KSIS- that's Sedalia's newstalk leader- and Kicks 105.7- country radio. Rob was born and raised in Missouri, not too far from Sedalia, and after a number of years of progressing his way through states, stations, and formats, we think Rob has found his sweet spot between radio, local and social. So here we go. Rob Creighton joins me from the Townsquare studios in Sedalia, Missouri. I believe we met at Conclave at one point, is that right? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:00:49 We may have said hello, but to be honest, and I may have gone to one of your sessions, but a lot of the years I went to Conclave, I really was not that much into podcasts. So if I went to digital stuff, I would go to stuff that I thought would be more practical for me, because I've never had, even here, people doing podcasts and that whole kind of thing. So I tend to go where- okay, what's going to help me build a better Facebook post or whatever? And all of that was probably pre-Townsquare, where now that I'm working for Townsquare, it's a lot more digital focused. And I've gotten to a different place with podcasts where I'll even listen to the people that you have talking about podcasts on your podcast. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:30 I'm thinking we don't need to have any more sessions at radio conferences about podcasting. You can just listen to this one and learn everything. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:01:37 I think that would be work. That works for me. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:40 I love that. Am I right in saying that you've only worked in one US time zone? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:01:46 No, I've worked in two. I've worked in central and Eastern. Lafayette, Indiana, believe it or not, is eastern time zone. It should be central, but it's eastern. Lansing, Michigan is eastern time zone as well. It should also probably be central. I mean, I was up in Lansing for my job interview. Middle of the summer, right around the longest day of the year. I come out of my interview, it's like 10:00 and the sun hasn't set yet. I mean, it's like, wow. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:17 How could you have a team like the Detroit Red Wings who played in the Western Conference of the NHL, yet are in the eastern time zone? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:02:24 You know, it's the city fathers, and I think it all has to do with banking. When I was in Lafayette, that's what they told me. They said, well, we want to make sure that everything is aligned with the Eastern bankers. And I'm like, oh, okay, whatever. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:35 Born and raised in Missouri. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:02:37 I was actually going to say I was born in Missouri, raised in Chicago for the most part. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:42 And a graduate of Loyola University. The only thing I know about the school is that they sometimes do well at college basketball. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:02:51 Yes, it's a Jesuit Catholic institution, and it's right on the lake shore in Chicago. They have a campus downtown off the Magnificent Mile called the Water Tower Campus because it's right by Water Tower, and then they have a campus up towards Evanston on the border of the city that's right on the lakefront. They have a big school of nursing, they have a great medical school, they have a pretty good law school, and these days they have a school of communications as well. When I went, it was just the Department of Communication, but it was a pretty nice environment to go to school. And I met a lot of my friends there and that's what kind of got me into radio, was doing radio there, because at the time they had a really great radio station that was very commercially modeled, had jingles, played CHR dance music. When I got there, we had Mark Driscoll doing the sweepers for us, and MJ Kelly was doing some of the production on it. I mean, it was pretty wild. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:51 That is cool, especially in that 19- late 80s, early 90s era. And Mark Driscoll calling out your station ID. Was it WLUW? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:04:02 Yes. Although we called ourselves Energy 88.7, it had always been commercially modeled, and at times it was called Hit Line. And then one of the general managers went out to LA, heard what Kiss FM and them was playing, and the rhythmic stuff, brought it back and said, hey, we should do this here. So then it became High Energy 88.7, and by the time I got there, they had dropped the high, and it was just Energy 88.7, and it was a dance CHR station at the time. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:30 And you wanted to take on BBM FM and you just told everybody, just twist the dial straight to the left. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:04:37 Pretty much. Pretty much. That's what we did. And there may be imaging out there that if you backmask it, says B96 sucks, and Q101 blows if you pay attention. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:47 I can't believe I got that right. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:04:51 At the time, it was- and I tell you, Dave Shakes and everyone at B96 who was programming at the time were just great, you know, because they would tolerate us and let us do different things. And he would just take people that work there, make 'em interns, make 'em morning show producers, never let anything bother him. I mean, I remember he even once came into the station to do something or other, and we had studios in an old three flat right off the Magnificent Mile, and he's just like, awesome. Nice real estate here. It really felt like guys like him in the Chicago radio business were really interested in helping us, and even though we were competition, they knew we weren't really a threat to them, even if we had a lot of listeners and were pretty popular with the kids. So it was great. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:38 Chicago radio back then was just- it was my favorite. I could go there. And there was Steve Dahl and Gary Meyer and there was Loop. I was there in 1991, and I think the news station, was it BBM Am? That somebody said, I want to see a big billboard that says Soviet updates splashed on this brick wall, and this is the time when the Soviet Union is coming apart. I just thought, wow, it was a wild time. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:06:04 Yeah. Chicago radio at that time was just fantastic. I mean, start with the Loop and go from there. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:11 What's the one that's high atop the Burger King? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:06:13 That was WLS. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:14 Oh, WLS. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:06:16 That was John Records Landecker, I think, made that famous. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:19 How do I remember all this stuff? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:06:21 It just pops out there. I had a professor at Loyola who was a big history buff. So I learned a lot about radio and Chicago radio at various times. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:32 And then eventually you moved on from Chicago, you graduate, and then you got to find a radio job. And where did you go? Did you go to Champagne Urbana Radio Group? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:06:41 Yes, I went to Champagne Urbana. Two guys by the name of Tim Hilsing and John McKeegan hired me. And they did not hire me because I was a good DJ. They hired me because they liked my management potential, and they needed an adult in the room to run their promotions department. So they hired me and I got to build that department from the ground up, and come up with promotional ideas. One of my jobs was to go out. We had a sales manager. His name was Bruce Andre, and he was a great guy, but he had a very Herb Tarlock like personality. So it was my job to go out there and he would go out and propose some sales promotion that there was no way programming would like. And it was my job to sit there and go, what Bruce really means to say is and come up with a way to adjust that promo so the program directors wouldn't scream bloody murder when we got back to the studios. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:07:36 Was it possible for you to give up the on air part of that? Obviously, you were itching to get back on. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:07:41 Well, I was still on the air while I was there. That was part of every job I've had. I've always had a part where it's on air and I've thought about that a lot at times, like, could I just go and be a program director or just be a director of content or an operations manager? And I'd like to think and say, yes, I probably could. And I'd like to say I could also do the other way around where I could go and just be a talent, too, for a while because it's hard to juggle both. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:08:12 But it also makes you more hirable. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:08:14 Well, doing both does make you more hirable. And I did get to a point where I was fair to good on the radio and it made getting jobs significantly easier. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:08:25 Yeah, I mean, most of the jobs that you've had when you've been on the air, there's been some mornings maybe, but some afternoons, I think you were predominantly doing afternoons at a lot of the stations. If you did have to go on the air, it just was convenient and worked out time wise. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:08:38 Yeah, afternoons are good. I like mornings. But the problem with mornings is you're in there at 4:30 or five, you're getting up at three in the morning, and by 02:00 you're out of gas and you can't always leave at 02:00. If you're a program director here in Sedalia, I'm the only person here after two in the afternoon. So if I went and did mornings, then my entire staff is going home at two in the afternoon, and that's just not a workable solution. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:08 And then after you went to work for Next Media Group, in what market was that? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:09:12 That was Joliette, Illinois, which is the suburbs of Chicago. So I was working in the suburbs there and had three, four, five years, got to change the station and launch one while I was there. It was a lot of fun. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:24 And Lansing, Michigan program Director yet again. So clearly it's great that you're on the air, but you're constantly being hired for your programming skills. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:09:33 Yeah, I would think so. In some cases or most of the cases, it was and that's kind of what I wanted to do. Because when I got to Loyola and we had the Jam jingles and the Mark Driscoll sweepers and I got to see we were scheduling music in Selector. They had worked out a deal where Selector gave us a free copy of it because they thought, hey, people are going to go on to work and program radio stations. They'll buy our product. And I wanted to sit there and I wanted to use the computer to schedule the music and I wanted to be the guy to write the silly lines to have Mark Driscoll say I wanted to be able to go out and pick the next jingle package we're going to get. That sort of motivated me to want to go down the programming end of things. And who doesn't like sitting there and going, I like this song, we're going to play it. No, this song is going to be a stiff. I'm not going to play it. So once I stepped into there and I kind of got myself in the point where at Loyola I went from a guy doing news on Tuesday afternoons to doing weekend shifts, to eventually being the promotion director for a year and then getting in and being the program director. And then after I graduated, I stuck around for a couple of years and was one of the adults running the joint as the assistant station manager before I went to Champagne and kicked that off. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:10:51 Yeah, shout out RCS and the V Twelve DOS software with linker that would allow you to go in and schedule all that stuff. Isn't that fun? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:11:00 Oh yeah, it was a blast. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:02 I loved that program because you could do it so quickly. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:11:05 It was just very easy. I think it takes me a little bit longer when I'm going through and trying to figure stuff out to use the selector windows. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:15 What do you use now, by the way? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:11:17 We use the GSelector with the windows. I don't do a lot of scheduling for these specific stations, but we still have to schedule the imaging and build the clocks and that kind of stuff. So I've never used it as much as I did the DOS when I was programming music every single day. But it's nice to go in there and make your clock changes. It's a little bit easier than DOS to do that. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:39 You ever go to a station and it's music master and you have to move it along because you're so attached to your RCS? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:11:46 No, I used Power Gold in Lubbock and did not have a choice. And I like Power Gold. I mean Power Gold, it's very similar to G selector, but I did not have a bad experience with Power Gold. Some of that may have been and I don't know if he was involved in this, but big country guys. Matt Warren, does that name sound familiar to you? He was a big country consultant. He actually came up with a music scheduling software called Music One. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:14 I remember that. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:12:17 I had an internet station for a while and was using that Music One the program. So when I got to Lubbock and we were using Power Gold, I just kind of thought, oh, this is pretty much the same software. And it was the same way to set it up. So I didn't have a problem with that. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:29 I can't tell you anything about Lansing, Michigan, but you can. There's like a TV station there. You were program director, but I don't know anything about it. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:12:38 I was working in Joliette. Joliette is embedded in Chicago. So you're not really working in Chicago, you're not really working in your own market. And at that point I wanted the experience to go and have a real ratings experience and really be in my own market. And if I'm number one, number two, number three, number ten, I really am. I'm not always station 28 with a one share and that's actually pretty good out in the suburbs. That was kind of my bugaboo. So that's why I moved on over to Lansing. And GM had an assembly plant there. It's very blue collar. I did not have a great experience there. I sort of let myself be intimidated by a general manager who was, I would say, somewhat abusive towards people. And I lasted about a year before I said, no, I'm leaving. And I went and sold cars after that for a year. That's how bad it was. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:33 You were selling Saturns. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:13:34 Yes, and it was a great experience. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:37 Because I was going to say, what was that experience like? Because in radio, we so often work with car dealers. Car dealers are very particular with details. They're quite specific on their ad buys, whether it's at a remote or it's the copy that you work with. And now here you are on the other side and you're selling them. What did you learn from that experience and what did radio people need to know about the car dealer business? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:14:01 Well, sometimes you're not going to get car dealers to buy radio. The guy I worked for, and we had a couple of discussions about this during off time. He just was not going to put his money into radio, especially not in Chicago. It was way too expensive for him. Web. And this is this is back 2005, 2006. Even back then, the web and digital was huge for car dealers. You know, there'd be someone there taking photos of every new car that came in, of every used car that came in. What I found beneficial is Saturn actually taught me how to sell. And they said, here's what people care about. They're going to care about comfort and convenience, or they're going to care about performance, or they're going to care about the color of the car. So they taught you to go in and kind of do the customer needs analysis and all that stuff that we hear sales managers and radio even talk about today. It was kind of the same thing, except instead of talking to a business owner, you're talking to a consumer that's there to spend anywhere from $12,000 to 30 or $35,000 on a vehicle. And it's your job to sit there and convince them that your vehicle is the best one to buy. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:15:11 So you learn a boatload about sales. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:15:14 Yes. And training was great, and the owner of the shop and his managers were just patient with me. Yeah. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:15:22 I'm not sure that if you're selling a Saturn and you have to buy Chicago radio, I don't think in 30 or even 60 seconds I would be able to explain why somebody would want a Saturn. I think you'd do a better job of doing it. And I can see how the web would really play into that and be, be a positive experience, especially for something like Saturn. Who'll- who says they have a Saturn? And what is a Saturn? And is that like a Nissan or a Toyota? Where does that fit in the scale of what I want to buy? It's not a Subaru. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:15:50 Yeah. The big thing was it was the anti-GM GM car for many years. They took the best of the foreign kind of tactics. And what got people interested in buying the foreign vehicles, tried to make it an anti-GM product. So it was different. There was no hassle, no haggle, none of that kind of stuff. It was sort of, you had to navigate that stuff while you were selling as well. And I came to it because I worked with car dealers in radio. And there was a guy named Tom Greenway that owned a Pontiac dealer in the town I was living at. And I used to do his remotes, and I'd see his guy selling, and it became something that was like, why I at least want to try this and learn- and learn more. Doing it right around the time there was the big crash, economic crash, 2005 2006 2007, wasn't the smartest, and I knew I was in trouble when the veteran sales guy looked at me, I think it was over a Memorial Day and said, we should have more customers and we don't. We're in trouble. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:16:45 Then Lafayette, Indiana, came calling. Home of the Purdue Boilermakers. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:16:50 Yes, boiler up. One of my favorite experiences programming radio was there in Lafayette. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:16:57 You did a lot of tailgate stuff, lots of touch in the university. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:17:01 Yeah, we did do a lot of touch in the university. The tailgate stuff I did in Champagne. We did a lot of that there for the aligni. Purdue we didn't do a lot of that, but we were the home of Purdue basketball. We were the home of Purdue football, home of Purdue women's basketball. In fact, I was the studio producer for the Purdue football tailgate shows for a couple of years, and that was a lot of fun. I would either, if it was an early game, set up the other college football matchups. If it was a late game, I'd give scores. And it was just kind of neat to direct the whole thing and then kind of wrap it up and then just hit the network right at the top of the hour when Learfield would take over and then do their two hour tailcade show. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:17:44 So you're working six days a week, because that's a Saturday that just got eaten up, and I don't think you're taking Mondays off. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:17:50 No, not there. We didn't have a big staff there, and there were a lot of six, seven days a week there. But it was also fun, and I had a great staff, and for like those days, I'd bring in a board op for the actual network stuff after me so I could get out and go do something else. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:06 Did you cross the street and go to WKOA? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:18:09 Yes. An interesting thing, I got budget cutted when I was there, and I was doing the Purdue stuff, and I was running the classic rock station that was artistic media partners, and they have or had a little bit of a reputation. And I know people that worked there ten years before me that still had the owner's face on a dartboard by the time I got hired. And I remember calling my friend, I was selling cars, called my buddy Craig Freeman up Craig Carson in the Milwaukee market. And I said, I'm selling cars, and I got this job offer, and a company doesn't have a great reputation. And I said, our buddy Chip worked for them ten years ago. He can't stand him. He still has photo of the owner on it. And he just looks at me and he goes, robbie, do you want to sell cars or do you want to go do radio? And if you want to do radio, take the job, and don't worry about what's going to happen down the road, because it might or it might not, but it could also happen wherever you go. So why don't you just get back into radio and take the job? Which is what I did, and I met a lot of great people, and I get to the end there, and they come to me about three months before they let me go, and they said, well, we're having some money problems. We're going to have to make some cuts. We're giving you 30 days notice that we're going to probably let you go unless things turn around. 30 days come and go, doesn't say anything. Another 30 days comes back, they come to me and they go, well, if things don't get better in 30 days, we're going to let you go. And then 30 days came and went, didn't get better. And they did let me go. And I hadn't read my contract or anything, and I sat there for six months and was applying for other jobs, trying to get out of the market. Hadn't had much luck. Six months is up. I send something over to Seamus, who was running what was then the Shurrs stations across the street, and he was interested, and he's like, hey, yeah, I got this part time night sting. You want to come in and do it? And I go and I start doing that, and he's like, yeah, we need a copy of your contract to make sure that you're not out of violation of your non compete or something. So call the business manager back at the old place and I can have a copy of my contract. Sure, come on over. Go over there. I'm reading it and I'm like, oh, no, this non competes for a year. And I think I said it in front of her. And she goes, Let me see that for a minute. She looks at it and she goes, well, by the way, I think it's written, they can't stop you from working because we didn't fire you for cause you got budget cut it and it doesn't say you can't go work if we budget cut you. Okay? So I take it back, I show the sures people, and they're like, yeah, we know that's a technicality, but really you need to talk to the owner and get yourself out of this, and if you don't, we can get our lawyers involved, which you knew they wouldn't. I mean, it's a part time job. It's not that important. But I appreciated that the GM said that he would do that for me. I ended up calling Arthur, the general manager, and I said, Look, I know the non compete was a year. I thought it was six months. Come on, I'm trying to get out of the market. At the time, artistic didn't have a country station. I was on a country station. I was on at night. I was just like, Dude, let me out of it. It'll be easier for me to get a job if you do. And I convinced him to let me out of it, and he was like, okay, fine, because I think I also had said, if you want me to come back and work part time for you, I will. But I've tried that, and you've said, no, so let me go. And he agreed, and he did, and I got out of the deal, and I went and did nights over at Koa, which was great for probably maybe two months at most before I went to Lubbock. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:21:33 Those non competes, I mean, we look back at them about, like, 15 years ago, and they seem okay. Well, that's just sort of what they are, and by today's standards, they seem really weird to be able to just say, we're going to give you two weeks and let you go. Oh, you can't work in the market for six months. I don't know too many judges that would allow that. You can't really stop someone from working. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:21:57 The question is, how many radio people are willing to take it to that level where they go out and they get a lawyer? It's already a profession that doesn't pay very well. If you find yourself unemployed, you're probably not going to go get the lawyer and fight it. You're probably going to go. It's just easier for me to find a job somewhere else and move. And I got some advice once from I think it was either John or Tim back in Champagne because I had to sign one of these non competes, and I was just kind of like, Come on. I'm sitting there arguing a little bit, and I think John went to me and goes, if you really like the market you're working in, or you think you could stay here after the job ends, then you might want to talk to a lawyer, or you might want to try to negotiate something with that noncompete that makes it more competitive for you. But if you're going to be leaving town right when the job ends or you're not really interested in staying, he's like, does it really matter if you sign the non compete? And well, it might, because you can't always just quit your job or get fired and walk out of town anyway, so why not have the option to go work for the guys across the street? But it's frustrating. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:07 I'm sorry, are you talking about radio or the Old West? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:23:12 Well, could be a little bit of both. The Biden administration- Now, I don't know if you've heard this. They're looking at trying to just get rid of them all. And in Chicago, I believe they outlawed them. And they outlawed them because of the traffic services. What would happen is every station in Chicago did traffic, and they did it with either Metro Traffic, Shadow Traffic, or whatever the successor names are of those groups. And all the major radio groups would change who is providing their traffic, but they'd have all these traffic reporters that couldn't stay with their stations or couldn't jump to the new company. So eventually they just got rid of all the non competes in Chicago. So if you're doing traffic on BBM, but you're employed by the traffic company and they change traffic companies, you jump to the new traffic company that's doing the reports. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:24:00 In just a moment, more with Rob as we talk about the shift to digital. Now, I don't think we're going to be divulging too many secrets, but if you look at the Townsquare web pages, it's clear their stations are more than radio. And Rob's got some stories from his time in Texas. What about those isolated places that make radio so creative? Rob's going to tell you how he fails, but then he's going to immediately tell you how he succeeds. There's more, including a transcript of this episode at soundoffpodcast.com. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:24:33 Transcription of the Sound Off podcast is powered by the Podcast Super Friends. Five podcast producers who get together to discuss podcasting. Sharpen your podcast and creation skills by following the show on the Soundoff Podcast's YouTube or Facebook page. Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover) 00:24:33 This Podcast supports Podcasting 2.0. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now. If you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at newpodcastapps.com. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:25:06 And you find your way to Lubbock, Texas, home of I'm not sure if they're there now, but the Lubbock Cotton Kings hockey team. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:25:13 They were gone by the time I got there. It is home of the Red Raiders, and I was there during Patrick Mahomes, which was great. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:25:20 Did you get to see him play? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:25:22 No, I did. I never went to a football game while I was there. I'm not a huge sports fan, although I did go to a Texas Tech baseball game. Baseball is kind of my sport if I'm into sports. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:25:33 Tell me about Lubbock. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:25:35 It's hot, it's dusty, it's desert-like, and it's 5 hours from everywhere. And there's one interstate in and out, and that goes to Amarillo. And you don't want to go to Amarillo. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:25:49 Sounds like Winnipeg, only warmer. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:25:54 The weather was a lot of fun. I like the weather because you get all four seasons. It's up. On a mesa, which is kind of desert like, but you get cold nights. You get all four seasons. But winter is very short and winter is more like thirties and forties and low 50s than tens and 20s. And you might get a snowfall or two every year. But most of the time, unless you're there when they have one of those snowstorms that comes through and drops a foot, which I was there when they had a blizzard that left a foot of snow. But most of the time the snow is gone within a day or two. I really liked the climate. I thought it was nice. The people are really, really friendly. And there's some great music that's come out of Lubbock. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:25:54 Like who? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:25:54 Joe Eely, to name someone. Natalie Maine's father Lloyd Maines. He played in Joe Eely's band. So Natalie Mains came out of there. That's where they got the song Lubbock or Leave It? Which Lubbockites still argue over whether she's ripping on the city or whether it's a very honest portrayal of the town. Buddy Holly, obviously, he's the- he's the obvious one. They got the great Buddy Holly Museum where you can go and you can see his glasses and they got an eight minute reel of him and Richie Valens. They got the video of all of that. It's a great town with a lot of music history. And the people really, though, are the friendliest. And the sunsets are beautiful. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:27:21 So when you have a place that is a little bit isolated, where it's 2 hours from nowhere, you get a lot of great musicians because what do people do? They get together and they play music. You know what else is really good in places like that? The radio. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:27:36 Yes. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:27:37 What was it like, or what is it like? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:27:40 Well, you know, I worked for a company there called Raymar Communications and they owned, I think we had five radio stations. We also at the time owned the Fox 34 television affiliate, the CW affiliate, a whole bunch of other affiliates. And for us, we had the chief revenue officer of the company, the owner of the company focused on the television. The chief revenue officer, a guy by the name of Chris Fleming was the radio guy. And I was one of the first people he brought in from that wasn't Lubbock Centric to come in and help him run the radio stations. I got hired, and then he brought another guy in and then I hired someone else in to help me out. So while I was there, we really tried to sort of accentuate the general market stations. And we put another general market station on that. And I say general market stations because we also had a sports station and a Tajano station. And both of those stations were really the big dogs of the radio end of that business. Sports because of Texas Tech tejano because that market has a high Mexican population. And that station went on the air like, 20 years prior, and it sort of became the voice of the Mexican community in that Lubbock area. And they just commanded everything in that community. It was sort of like if they said it, it had to be true. And they had loyal listeners, and it's a really unique Texas form of music, too. So that's a very small from an artist and a talent standpoint, that's a very small community there. That's very great to work with. I had a lot of fun doing that. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:29:15 How did you find your way back to Sedalia? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:29:17 I had been working in Lubbock. I liked it. I wanted to stay for years, and I liked working for Raymar. It was a small family company. That company was started by Ray and Mary Moran. His son had been running the station. And I sat there every year, and you go to the Christmas parties and you'd see the people that worked for them for 30 years or 20 years or ten years. The guy I replaced in Lubbock doing the morning show was a guy named Lou D. And he and his wife Diana D, had been big morning show hosts for years, since like the 70s or early eighty s. And Lou is also the guy that was on one of the TV stations hosting the monster program. So I kind of liked it. I liked the history, and I liked where I was and I liked how I was treated, and I liked working for Chris. He was one of my favorite managers. Chris ends up leaving, moving on. Owner goes in to look at the books, comes back about two, three weeks after Chris goes and goes, yeah, I'm looking at the books. The numbers aren't great. I need to make some cuts. Well, and he does this the day before I'm supposed to go on vacation. He's like, we were going to do this a couple of weeks from now, but I hear you're going on vacation, and I think it's better if we do this now. So he fired me. Two weeks before, I had been at Conclave, and a friend of mine introduced me to Kurt Johnson, who's the senior vice president of programming here at Town Square. And Kurt and I shook hands and had a nice conversation, and he said, well, if you're ever looking at moving on, here's my card, give me a call. We're always looking for good people at Town Square. And I thought, okay, thanks. But I said, yeah, I like who I'm working for and this, that, and the other thing. And three weeks later, I'm giving Kurt a call, and I'm like, yeah, my situation has changed. Kurt, I just got let go, and I'm looking for something new. I'd love to talk to you. So we started having a conversation. Town Square also owns stations in Lubbock, so Kurt gave me a little bit of a project and said, well, listen to our stations in Lubbock. Write me your thoughts down. We may have an opening there. I'm sitting there thinking back to the non compete. Again, I have a non compete, and I know Raymar was enforcing those. So I thought, well, it's probably not going to work, but okay. I'll give my opinions of the Town Square operation in Lubbock. And I listened to everyone and submitted it. And he goes, oh, yeah, Rob, we really liked your stuff. And he's like, I want you to come out to Dallas and meet with me and Lubbock to Dallas is a 45 minutes plane ride. So we set it up, and they put me on a southwest flight out of Lubbock and got me into Dallas. I went to lunch with him and another vice president, Todd Lawley. And they told me about Town Square and everything, that the company was sort of similar to others and different and asked a lot of questions. And then eventually I got the job. They put me in the Quad Cities. I stayed there for a year. It was a significant challenge. It was a very difficult job for me. There were a lot of people in that building that weren't doing their job when I came in and needed to not be working there anymore. And in addition, when you come work for Town Square Media, it's a very different company now. They'll probably go out and say, oh, it's digital first, and digital is very important. When I got hired, it was stressed that digital was important, but it didn't seem half as important as it is here and more germane to my story in the Quad Cities. I thought there was going to be a little more help. I thought, oh, I'm going to go Quad Cities. There's going to be DMEs. There's going to be program directors under me, and I'm going to be this director, a content guy. And what happened was I really didn't ask those questions. I didn't say, do you have program directors? Is there a digital managing editor that can help me with this? So I get there, and I'm out to dinner the first night with the general manager, and I start saying something. Well, I'll get with my program directors tomorrow and bye bye. And she just gets this wide eyes and looks at me and goes, program directors? Yeah, you're it. We don't have anybody else. And I joined sort of in an interim position to see if I liked it. And it was just difficult from day one. And I probably on day two, should have called Kurt and said, yeah, this isn't going to work for me right off the bat. You need to ease me into something like this. But I like the money. The money was there. It was a prestige job 2 hours away from Chicago. So I thought, well, I'm going to give it a try. And it turned out to be very difficult, and ultimately I wound up failing and leaving. And then three weeks later, I got a call from one of the people I worked with at town square and said, yeah, you know, rob, we got this really small market. It's not really something we think you'd want to do, but we know you're interviewing in different places in missouri. And I was I was interviewing for a job in springfield. I was interviewing for a job in columbia. I had always had kansas city on my bucket list of places to go work. So when they said, would you go down here and at least do this interim lee and whatever, I said, sure, it's more money than unemployment anyway. And I wasn't happy with how things ended with town square. I thought I was a better manager than I had showed there. So there was part of me that was motivated to prove myself. And the interesting thing was the day I walked in here, pretty much the same situation as there, but a smaller staff. I knew what I was doing. So having worked for town square the previous year and having had that experience allowed me to walk in and not make the same mistakes I'd made in the quad cities and just go, no, here's how we're going to do it. You're going to come with me on this journey. And it turned out I fell in love with the staff. I really like the town. My parents have a slight connection to the town. 50 years ago, they lived right when I was a baby. We lived up the road in glasgow and fayette, which is real close, not real close, but closer to Columbia. Their best friends that they had in Missouri were both from Sedalia. They were Sedalia native. So when I mentioned to my mom I was going to Sedalia, she's like, oh, you're from Sedalia, Larry, or, you're going to Sedalia? Larry and Marie are from Sedalia. Remember Larry and Marie? And yes, I do. They had dragged me to meet with them and go to dinner with them a couple of times as a kid, and so it kind of became this, okay, I'm going to go back home and sort of do it, because we vacationed in Kansas City as a kid several times. The Royals are one of the baseball teams I naturally follow. It just seemed like a good fit, and I got here, and I love my staff. They work very hard. They're good people, and it's nice to have a very small market radio experience, too, because that's one of the things that I've never had until now. Sedalia is about 20,000 people. Warrensburg, which is one of the other towns that we hit, is 17, 18,000 people. And there's a little university there called University of Central Missouri. In between the two, there's a smaller town called Nobnoster. That's home to Whiteman air force base, which is where the B2 stealth bombers are housed and where they fly out of. So it's a great little community, and it's been a different experience, but great. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:36:38 So tell me a little bit about Townsquare, because I think it was 20- I'm going to guess it was 2018 when you had the meeting with Kurt at Conclave, because I remember I was there, too. And the feeling that I got from Kurt and Townsquare was the approach to digital, which, as you mentioned, was coming. But today there's a lot of digital that that shows up when you interact with a Townsquare property. I mean, I just looked right at the front page of, you know, your group. Cume is 13,700, digital audience of a quarter million, social followers 17,472. Hey, we do digital. And I think recently I saw a stat that Townsquare's revenue was- I don't know what the percentage was. It was very high, and it was a lot of digital money, and I want to say 50%, but I don't want to misquote myself. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:37:26 Yeah, it's high and it's up there. And what really led Townsquare to just pretty much finally go, we're all in, was the pandemic, because they realized that when the pandemic hit and all of radio lost a lot of advertisers, our digital didn't suffer. It took a hit. There were some people that were- that obviously got nervous and canceled contracts or whatever, but digital really helped keep the station afloat. Digital really helped them keep their radio properties, allowed them to not have to lay as many people off, allowed Bill Wilson to kind of strategically put the stations where he needed to to get them through the pandemic and then come out the other side. And during that process, when they found out that that digital became that important, the company pretty much went all in after that on digital and sort of upped it and said, hey, here's how everyone that works for us, whether you're on the radio side or you actually work for our digital side, here's what we need to do. Here's where our priorities is. There's a big value put on making sure that each talent is creating digital and is hitting a certain number of page views every single month. That becomes very important to the overall job. But if you're doing it right, you're creating content. You're not creating a blog post over here and a radio break over there. The idea is, hopefully you have this idea and you maybe have a written part of it that you've done written. You maybe have a radio part of it that's radio, and then there's a social component that goes up on social media as well. So hopefully whatever you're writing digitally is just part of your show prep that's then going to be in your show. And it's a great way to look at content. And I enjoy writing, so I've never really had a problem. One of the things that made me want to come work for Townsquare was I wanted to learn how to do digital. No one really teaches anyone in the industry how to actually do it. It's just sort of you're expected to do it, and then you go to a conclave kind of thing and you see some of these digital experts out there talking to you doing it, but nobody ever says, here's the plan. And if you come work for Town Square, there's a certain amount of people that have been there that will say, here's my hand, here's the plan. Follow it, and here's why we're doing it. And you can have a lot of success. And here in Sedalia, where we don't get rated, I was looking at our digital numbers, really, to see how we were doing as a radio station because the digital numbers are there, and that's what I had. And we're not getting Nielsen numbers here. So I was looking at that and sharing that with my staff before they pretty much started going, okay, everybody's in. And this is this important. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:40:21 And the attribution is quite nice as well, because then you don't have to fiddle around with the Nielsen numbers. You know exactly what you're dealing with with the digital numbers, right? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:40:29 Yeah. And Townsquare, I don't want to give away any of the secret sauce, but they've really invested in digital too, more so than a lot of other radio companies. And I think that helps the company generate more money, be more successful from a sales standpoint. And it's great for everyone involved as long as you are open to that process. If you're not open to the process of it and you think radio should be done how it was 30 years ago, you could have a problem working for Town Square. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:41:01 So back when I was a programmer, I set a few social goals for people to hit, and then one staff member was smart enough to just put up one cat video that hit all the goals for the month. But I'm like, the cat video doesn't do anything for the Rock station. It's kind of like, yeah, you hit your goal. But branding wise, this is off brand for the radio station. That's got to be tough when you're asking people to hit a goal. But you might be off brand. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:41:28 Yeah, but a lot of what Townsquare is doing is it's local and it's regional stuff. And we're lucky that we have classic hits, we have country and we have newstalk. So classic hits in country. Yeah. The demos are a little bit different, but there's some shared attitudes there, I think. And when you're writing about stuff that's local and regional in nature, it becomes stuff that both those audiences and even our news talk audience is going to be in. And you can't forget that. There's also the people that come to our websites and read our stuff that may not listen to us. So it opens our stuff up to a whole nother audience that the radio stations won't because we may talk about, is it illegal to park your car on the lawn in Missouri or Illinois? Well, you may not be in the sound of my voice, but that might be a question that you want to ask yourself. And so you might go do a search. And my article is going to be one of the first that pops up that may give you the answer to that. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:42:36 You know, one of the reasons why I think a lot of radio companies struggle with the digital side is that they all get around the table. We've been in those management meetings, and we'll see that the station has a lot of reach in the digital sphere. But somebody, either a general manager, perhaps a salesperson, will say, yeah, but we're not monetizing that the way we can with the 30's and the 60's. So is the mentality, when you all get together, that you become agnostic to wherever the listener comes from, it doesn't matter. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:43:08 Oh, yes, that's preached by our corporate leadership all the time, and yeah, it's content agnostic. It doesn't matter where it starts. It's how many different places can you get it. And I think from a sales standpoint, it's the same thing. Yeah, okay. If someone's best way for us to help them and help them market their business is radio advertising. Give them the radio advertising. If they're having a big event and they're having a circus in their parking lot, then yes, sell them a remote. If it's someone that has no online presence and they're a business that will do well from having a big online presence, then go out and sell them a website. Go out and sell them the stalker ads that follow people around online. And while we're at it, let's go sell them some stuff on our own websites because we have a lot of people reading them. I think there is a lot more of the approach. It's what people need and it's not one against another. And that's one of the things a couple of years ago, out of the pandemic, that the company really put an exclamation point on with all their managers. It's you're not just managing radio or you're not just the digital manager for the group. Everybody is somewhat managing everything. It's all important. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:44:29 And I'm going to guess that Facebook plays a big part. If you've got country, if you've got some talk, and you've got classic hits, and you're in smaller market where Facebook gets a lot of usage, facebook must be your number one social priority. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:44:44 Yes, Facebook is our number one social priority for two reasons. One, it's mostly where our audience lives and where they're going to get a lot of engagement from. Number two, with our limited resources, you can't be everywhere for everyone all the time. So you sort of have to say, where can we go and what can we do and have the most impact? And for us, that's Facebook. There's three of us that work in this building, me and Becca and Randy. Randy is our news guy. Becca is our morning show host on awesome. So Becca handles the awesome Facebook page. Randy handles our newstalk Facebook page. And then I handle the Kicks Facebook page at this point and pretty much also app pushes and a lot of the other things that we're going to do digitally. And those guys, I can't speak highly enough of them because they play above their level every single day. And they are some of the best employees I have, or ever have worked with. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:45:43 Yeah, and having listened to the station, Randy seems like a very sensible person. He's not yelling and screaming on the talk radio on the AM and banging the table. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:45:52 He's mostly our news guy, but he's probably our most visible guy in the building. He's the guy that's out in the community and the public face of these stations the most. And since his newscasts appear on all three stations, people will go out and talk to him. If Randy Kirby calls you about a news story, you're going to talk to him about it. If he shows up at your event to take some pictures, you're going to sit there and pose with him. And he's very important to our operation because we're in a news desert. That's one of the things. Nobody is spending a lot of time covering Sedalia in the news. Unless there's a murder, the Columbia TV stations aren't going to do it. The Kansas City TV stations aren't going to do it. And if there's one thing about small town America, it's they like their news because it's small town enough that everyone wants to know what are their neighbors up to, what are their friends up to who got drunk and popped for drunk driving over the night? So, yeah, our news content is one of some of our highest looked at posts every day. And I know people listen to our news talk for the newscasts that are local. It's a great way to kind of keep our pulse on the community and our competition just can't do it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:47:05 I think you recognize that you're not going to have a problem in the community unless Dateline shows up or somebody is coming here to do a true crime podcast. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:47:14 Yeah. No, you're not. And if someone comes to town and wants to do that crime podcast, come see me because Townsquare might want to talk to you about that. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:47:23 The one other thing that I am curious about, and that's the AM signal. Do you see less people accessing the radio station terrestrially, and more people sort of accessing it maybe through a smart speaker or online? Have you seen that change over the last few years? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:47:40 I think there's more people that are listening online and through a smart speaker. But you got to remember, we're in the Midwest, and KSIS has a pretty good signal. So if you're in the IS, in the Midwest and you grew up with those big AM stations, I think there's been less erosion of that listenership in places than maybe other parts of America has seen. There's still a, oh yeah, I grew up listening to AM radio, or that's where the news is or that's where the talk station is. So I don't think that whole, "this is old technology" is necessarily caught up at least here yet. But, yeah, you do see more people looking at our app or going to our Facebook page or streaming the station than maybe you would have ten or twelve years ago. I just think overall, listening to AM stations- and I don't know if you've noticed this where you're at, but it used to be you could go far and away and you'd hear those 50,000 watt Clear Channel stations, and it may be the different cars I've had over the years or whatever, but it seems to me like it's a lot harder to hear those stations now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:48:53 Yes, so I will agree with you. It used to be that I could pick up a couple of radio stations from Fargo, which is about 3 hours south of here, quite easily during the daytime, and now I can't hear them as well as I used to. I think that's probably a sign of just more electronics in the car. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:49:10 Yeah. But you got to think that creates perceptions with people as well. When I was in Champagne, I could listen to WLS or WGN any time I wanted to, and I could always get it. When I was in Lafayette it was a little bit fuzzy, and then when I wound up in the Quad Cities- and I've heard from other people, so it very well may be what the electronics are in your car, that said, oh, I didn't have that problem, but just was very hard to listen to them if it was middle of the day. And that's been disappointing to me. And I know there's a lot more interference out there with the AM, too, that's been causing problems. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:49:46 If anybody wants to listen to that station, what do they need to ask their device to do? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:49:50 Alexa play KSIS. At least I believe that's what it is. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:49:55 And I like the fact that Townsquare doesn't geo block, so I can listen to all the Townsquare radio stations on my device in the kitchen around the house, unlike those other radio companies who geo block me. What's wrong with Canada anyway? Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:49:55 Nothing! Matt Cundill (Host) 00:49:55 Except the weather today. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:50:11 Bundle up, wear your long underwear. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:50:14 Rob, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me and to talk about this. And this is the conversation we didn't have at Conclave, but that was good. You're talking to Kurt, and now look, you've got something going for you at Townsquare in Missouri. Rob Creighton (Guest) 00:50:25 Yes, Matt. Thank you for having me on the show. It was an honor that you asked me to do it. And also, I love listening to the cast and I love- I love, just, everyone that comes on and hearing their perspectives and everyone that shares their story. It's always a very cool listen. Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:50:40 The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill. Produced by Evan Surminski. Social Media by Courtney Krebsbach. Another great creation from the Soundoff Media Company. There's always more at soundoffpodcast.com.

This week's guest is Manitoba local, Flames Nation legend, and recent podcast convert Dean "Boomer" Molberg. Dean hosts the Barn Burner podcast, a show dedicated to everything Calgary Flames-related, along with his long-time cohost/friend Ryan Pindler and former Flames player Rhett Warrener. Check out their most recent episode below! But much like many of our guests, Dean has a long and storied history in radio. He's been in the industry for decades at this point, but you're most likely to know him from his tenure on the morning show at FAN 960 in Calgary. Dean and I talk about fan interactions, interviewing pros before they went pro, why his team felt the switch to podcasting was a necessary one, and most importantly, hockey. Dean's full of stories you won't want to miss, from both junior hockey teams like the legendary Wheat Kings and NHL teams like the Flames. Dean also spoke at length about his team at CKX in Brandon, Manitoba. If you want to see what they looked like working together, check out the video below for a flashback to the early 90's! If you're a Flames fan, or just a hockey fan in general, check out the Barn Burner podcast on Amazon or Apple Podcasts. You can also follow Dean at all the usual places: Instagram, LinkedIn and Twitter. Transcript: Tara Sands (VO) 00:00:01 The Sound Off Podcast. The podcast about broadcast with Matt Cundill starts now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:10 Dean Molberg is the host of the Barn Burner Podcast on the Flames Nation network. Before that, he was on the radio, predominantly sports radio and TV. He was part of the morning show at FAN 960 in Calgary before he made made the jump from broadcast to podcast. It hasn't quite been a year, but I think it's a good idea that we check in on him and see how it's going for him and the other members of the show. We're doing this episode because maybe you're thinking of doing the same. Dean Molberg joins me from his home in Calgary. I hear you're a terrible beer hockey player. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:00:45 Not great. We had this pond hockey tournament. I literally had to go into my garage and find all my stuff because my kids haven't been playing hockey for a number of years. And then COVID hit. And you know what? I'm good in the room, though. I bring beer. I make people laugh. That's often as important as what you can do on the ice. But you're not wrong. That's good scouting by you. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:08 Can anybody really fail at beer league hockey? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:01:11 The guys that have the roller bags that come in and they have their bags on wheels, they can't throw it over their shoulder. That's a bit of a fail. If you're one of those, like a shinny dink or a Harvey tryhard. If you just try a little bit too hard, you're failing. Probably you don't know you're failing if you're a Harvey tryhard. But the best part is, now that I'm not doing morning radio and getting up at three, I might actually be able to play Beer League again. These 10:45 p.m. start times, you can actually wedge that into your schedule now. So maybe I will get better at it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:42 It's tough to come down from those games, though, right? Because it's like 03:00 A.m. and you're, like, still up and still wired from the game. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:01:48 Brutal. Yeah. And some of these guys, they don't shower before they leave. They just go home. They go right to bed. It's disgusting. Dude, what are you doing? I could never pull it off. So Beer League was out of my life for about 15 years. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:00 You from Roblin, Manitoba? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:02:02 I am. There's no way you know without looking. There's no way you know anything about Roblin Manitoba. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:08 I know nothing about Roblin Manitoba. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:02:11 Good. Nor should you. Good digging, though. Good on you. Look at you. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:15 I mean, like, you go to Brandon and then where do you go from there to get to Roblin? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:02:20 You go north and west. It's kind of right on the Saskatchewan border. We're about 2 hours, 45 minutes. This is the thing I always get when you leave. Oh, so winnipeg. Hey, you're from where? You never lived in Winnipeg? I'm about 5 hours from Winnipeg, about two and a half from Regina. So it was always one of those things I had to correct people, but all very small town, and our closest city was Yorkton, Saskatchewan, where CJGX for the purposes of this, a lot of people know GX 94. If we were going to Yorkton, it was a big trip in grade twelve, I think it was, we would have a spare in period four. So you had four before lunch and four after, you had that period four spare. So you'd wheel into Yorkton to grab some Big Macs and Nuggets and then get back for the end of your lunch hour. Are you guys going to Mcdudes today? Are you guys are you making the McDonald's front? Get me some nuggets. Get me some nuggets. Okay, well, give me money. I don't have any money. That was the excitement growing up in Roblin. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:17 GX 94, by the way, still has an all night announcer. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:03:20 It's a legendary place. I know we'll get into it. But that was where the whole thing for me started, with radio. My dad always had the radio on. If he was in the shop, in the kitchen, in the car, it was always the radio. And you didn't have a lot of options there. And as long as I could remember, my whole thought process was this guy, these guys sit in a room and listen to all the new music and tell jokes and laugh and get paid to do it. This is the greatest job in the world. Like, I have to do this. And it was GX 94. That was my dream. I figured if I could ever get a job in Yorkton doing GX 94, just that's- you can put me away, I'm done. But never did. Tried. Tried to get a job there. But it never did pan out for me. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:03 Oddly enough, most of the people that I know who live west of Winnipeg all work in a form of hockey, like in the hockey industry in some capacity. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:04:13 I think Chris Cuthbert was in Yorkton. Darren Dreger, Darren Millard. And I won't put myself in Mallard or Dreger's class, but there's a few of us that were in Manitoba, in Brandon, maybe Yorkton, in that area that ended up on the sports side of things. There were quite a few. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:29 Darryl Wolfski comes to mind. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:04:31 Beef. My buddy Beef. How do you know Beef? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:35 Beef did some promotion, I think, at one time or another, and needed some cooperation from the local radio station in Winnipeg. And we might have had a few meetings. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:04:43 He was one of the first guys I worked with. I met him when I started in Brandon and he was doing afternoons on KX 96. I was on 1150 Kicks, the hot, the country. Hot, new country. And we would order Domino's Pizza every Saturday afternoon to try and kill that six hour shift. It's long days, Matty. Long days. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:00 Quite often his social media is riddled with bad CanCon tracks that he'll mention that he heard on the radio and can't understand why people are still playing things like the Partland Brothers and some other disasters. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:05:12 He has no tolerance. Unless it's Godsmack or something, he has very little tolerance for stuff like that. It's very tough being beef. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:20 What was your first radio station you worked at? If it was a radio station. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:05:24 I went to college in Thunder Bay. After high school, again, I knew what I wanted to do the whole way through and took radio and TV. It was four semesters over two years. First semester, you split between the two. And I knew I wanted to do radio. I just thought, all the cool people are in radio. All the stuffed shirt reporters, they want to be on TV. They're the losers. They're in TV. So, yeah, it was fun. Went to Thunder Bay for two years, took my, whatever you call a practical placement in Brandon at- it was 1150 CKX. They had flipped formats to Hot New Country and it was a tight kind of a Top 40 rotation. Didn't work. I think they found that out eventually. But two months, I think I was doing my placement before I had got there. They had actually fired a guy. So there was a hole in the evenings. And there again, it's like, man, if I could ever get this... Right place, right time, I didn't screw up too badly. So my first was junior swing. Is that what we used to call it? Junior swing at 1150 CK A.M. in Brandon in 1994. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:25 So junior swing versus senior swing. The difference between the two is somebody's got to work the bad shift on the weekend. What's the difference? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:06:36 I don't know. It was junior swing. It maybe just would have been more shifts. I think I did Saturday, Sunday afternoons and then a couple of weeknights. Whereas that other lucky devil, whoever he was, would have gotten three weeknights and two weekend shifts. But, crazy. It was so much fun. Where was it for you? Everyone remembers that first job and everybody they worked with and how fun it was. I'm guessing you're the same. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:59 I guess I did junior swing at 100.3 The Bear, which was- it wasn't my first full time position. My first full time position was actually afternoon drive in Kentville, Nova Scotia. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:07:10 Holy cow. The Bear. And afternoons. Look at you, Matty. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:07:14 Yeah. First full time position was Kentville, Nova Scotia. It was $22,000 a year, I think, to do afternoons. I did that for about six months, graduated university, and then it was a lot of part time until I went to Edmonton for the junior swing position. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:07:33 You must have thought you had hit the big time, right? Going from out east to Edmonton? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:07:38 I actually had three years at CHOM in Montreal. That was something. And by the way, in an era- and I'm very nostalgic right now because I found all my tickets to all the 92, 93 and 94 Montreal Expos in Montreal, canadians games, and I'm just sort of sifting through them right now and I go, what a time to be alive in that era in Montreal. And on the radio, and with a Stanley Cup, Kirk Mueller walking up and down Green Avenue right outside the radio station. Late nights with Lyle Odaline, all sorts of disasters that were happening. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:08:10 Fun times. Remember radio used to be a fun thing. If I listen to you and Blundell, it's no fun anymore. It's terrible. I, like you, I am nostalgic. I remember the great days of radio, but those, sadly, were a long time ago. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:08:28 And for somebody who wanted to do radio over television, you did do some TV. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:08:35 Did do some TV, and you know what? You would know this in those smaller markets, you had to- if you could do it, you were going to do it. So there was the two FM stations and the TV station. So if Ron Thompson, the weather guy, is sick at 02:00 P.m., he can't make it. Hey, who could wing it? Do you think you could do the weather? I'll give it a shot. Next thing you know, you're wearing a suit that isn't yours and doesn't fit, and you're in front of the green screen and now there's a trough line with a high pressure or something coming in. So you're doing the weather. And then if they're short a guy on the weekend on the other station, you're not Dean Molberg, you're Bob Bobson on KX. It was just one of those things. You did it all, and because you had that flexibility and the availability, and I liked sports, and it was just fun. So, yeah, it went from the radio to TV. It kind of went back and forth, depending on if you could get a full time job at one or the other. It was a part time job. You'd leave it, you'd go to the full time. Then there was maybe a little more money at this one, so you'd swing back and forth. But that was where the first kind of sports on a regular basis started, was on the TV side. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:40 Tell me about Brandon and specifically the Wheat Kings and what that franchise means to that town. I know it's the only game in town, but it looks rock solid. And the reason why I ask is because I looked at sending my third son Daniel to Brandon, and I looked at it and said, well, the only thing here is really the Wheat Kings, but they are there and it is the game in town. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:10:05 Yeah, it was crazy because they were owned- Bob Cornell, who was they called him Plumber. He owned a plumbing company. He was the owner. And then this was a long time ago, but Kelly McCrimmon, who is now the general manager of the Vegas Golden Knights, he bought in as part owner. He was the GM then took over sole ownership. And he would dip in and out of being the coach after he fired somebody else, and then he would take over. But yeah, Kelly, he ran that thing like it was an NHL team. This was not a side gig for him. This was his passion, this was his business. And he treated it like it was the biggest show going. And I think that's why. And he would find a way. He made big trades. He always managed to go to the scheduling meetings and get those Friday and Saturday night games, and they'd be on the road for those less desirable Tuesday and Wednesday night games. But it was great. It was always funny, though, being a farming community. Round one of the playoffs. That was always kind of during seeding. This wouldn't always be sold out for round one. You couldn't get off the land to get to the games. Round two, you probably had your crop in by then, and then it would start to pick up. And when I got there, it was one year after Wade Redden had just gotten there, Marty Murray was the captain and he had won- He was captain of the World Junior Team and they won gold and he was Player of the Year. And they went to the Memorial Cup twice when I was in Brandon. So, yeah, he, of course, sold that team. But it's kind of that junior hockey thing. The thing about Brandon is you were so far away. There's the team in Winnipeg now, but Regina was the closest to you. So if you were going to Brandon, you had to pack a lunch because it was a long way to get there and it was going to be a long way to leave. And those were tough teams. And a lot of times there'd be some sore kids getting on that bus thinking, we don't see a hotel for 12, 15, 18 hours or see home for 18, 20 hours. So they made it tough on teams. And they did just sell to a local group, the Jacobsons there. And they're as passionate as Kelly was. They built a new practice rink, I believe it is. So it's a great town. I loved my time in Brandon. It was fun covering those Wheat King teams. They were awesome when I was there. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:11 Give me the name of a few players that you interviewed postgame that are recognizable in the NHL now. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:12:17 It's funny, they don't play anymore because that's how old I am. But in terms of junior hockey, it was kind of a who's who. Carey Price was playing with Tri City. I remember talking to him when he came through. Chris Dingman was the big guy in Brandon, and then was the captain. Marty Murray was there. Peter Schaefer played on the World Junior team. He was in and out with Vancouver, I think played with Ottawa. Marty Murray and then from there. I went to Red Deer and I was fortunate when I got there. They had very good teams. They had won the Memorial Cup a couple of years earlier. They had just lost jarrett stole and the Kootenay ice. But it was year two of Dion Fanuff and Cam Ward was there. He, of course, went on to win a Con Smyth in a Stanley Cup with Carolina. But, yeah, it's sad. Matt, a lot of those kids, they're now grown men with kids of their own and they've retired. But those are two very cool markets to have worked in. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:09 The Centrium in Red Deer. Did I get that right? Red Deer Rebels? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:13:13 Green seats. Yeah. And that was another one, that team. And Brent Sutter owns it and Coach and all of that. He always said, and he said right from day one, he said, it's Red Deer. But this is central Alberta. And it really was. Whether you were in Ennisvale or Stetler, Caroline or wherever, you were coming to the Rebels games. And that area loves that team. And I haven't been back for a while, but I'm sure it's no different. They love that team. It's a great rank. Going from Brandon, it was a tight little kind of keystone center to you had an upper deck for junior hockey. I thought I had gone to this was the big time. But, yeah, that's a great rank, great town, and that team means a lot to that area. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:52 I've played a few games in that arena, albeit it was with the Edmonton Musicians Beer League hockey team. And we would play the Calgary Musicians. And I'm not a musician, but I was on the team. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:14:04 Are you a hockey player? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:06 I am. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:14:07 There you go. You're a ringer. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:09 And also I've officiated a few games. I would go down for tournaments from Edmonton at the time and get paid mileage and referee a bunch of games. Great arena. I loved it. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:14:19 Great arena, great town. Moving from Manitoba to there. It sounds silly, but to be that close to Calgary and Edmonton, two NHL teams, two CFL teams, I thought it was amazing. I could go to the 711 or the Max and get a Calgary Sun and an Edmonton son. You got both. It was unbelievable for me when I first got there. And still, yes, it was great to be that close. You could go and whether it's an airport or a sporting event, you always had something to go and see. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:46 Or do I ask this all the time of anybody who goes through Red Deer? And that's to explain how you manage the Flames versus Oilers at the local Boston Pizza. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:14:56 There was a bar and everyone remembers, and it was called Jim and Jairs. And sadly, it's not there anymore. Jim and Jair were twins and they were big burly dudes. Beards. They loved the Riders, and I don't know if they were split on the Oils, but it was the 1 bar where they had the tape down the middle during a battle of Alberta back in the 80s. When you'd have the Flames on the one side and the oiler fans on the other, I think it was during those days, the Oilers weren't very good, but they had been good, so good. Obviously, during the guys that are our age, it was easy to cheer for the Oilers back then. And I still think that's the case. I find here in Calgary that Flames fans like the Flames, but oiler fans love the Oilers. They grew up with those five cups and those teams and they were so easy to cheer for. So I still think that you go much north, you start getting past Olds and towards red Deer. You're getting into oil country still for sure. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:15:51 Were you doing TV or radio in Red Deer? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:15:54 I did both. You like this story again because I know you're a radio guy and I was thinking about this interview and just seeing radio in the state that it's in. But, man, I was in Brandon and I was working radio and they had switched the format from country, which I liked, to hot CHR, I think. But it was literally when the music stopped and you started talking to do your break, you had the music bed underneath and you're playing destiny's child and Ja rule and all of this stuff. And I had been there for eight years and I was not digging this. I went, I'm going to get fired. And I would have gotten fired. My attitude was no good and I probably deserve to be shown the door knew I had to leave. And there were two job opportunities. There was one in red Deer to be basically sports director pregame post game for the red Deer rebels and all of this. And this is it. The other was sports director in peace river. And I'm thinking, is peace river. Okay? So you start looking boy, it's kind of up there. Anyway, I knew the news director in peace river. I used to work with her in Brandon at Ckx. So I'm thinking, I got an in. I'm good enough for peace river. I'd really like the red Deer. So worst case, I'll go to peace river. But, man, I'd like the red Deer job. I talked to the girl in peace river. Oh, yeah. Hey, that's good. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. So I sent the tape. I never heard from her again. I got absolutely ghosted. I got shut out in peace river. Thank God I got the call. Yeah, well, we'd love to have you at red Deer. I went from having my ego and my self esteem completely blown out of the water to landing a job that even when I look back, I don't know what would have happened because I had kind of lost I'd been in branded too long. It was eight years. I had done everything there was to do there. And not to say I was beyond that, talent wise, but I just needed a change. And if I hadn't got that Red Deer job, I don't know what it would have happened. But it was so great. It was the Patterson Group. Paul Mason was the general manager and just the best people in the world. I love the city. I love that station. The first time that I got there, went for lunch with Cam Moon, who at the time was the play by play guy, the longtime play by play guy of the Rebels. And I knew of Cam, but I never had met him. And it was instant. We sat down for lunch and there were two guys from the radio station and one other guy from the Rebels were there. So we were all sitting at a table and it was maybe four minutes before Cam and I were doing all the talking. We were just playing off each other. Well, remember this guy? You know this guy? This guy? Oh, I know that guy. We were just back and forth. Basically, they just got up like, okay, you guys are going to work fine. And we did. I was there for four years. I did the last year in TV. But working with Cam, working those Rebels games were so much fun. We still laugh about some of the stuff that we would do. They had, as you would know, in the entry and they kind of have the bar at the back of the building and he'd be up in the press box and you'd always do something to get the other guy's attention. It was everything I could do to try and break him up during the call of a game. And he'd drop in the little Easter eggs during his play by play call, which would get me going. So much fun. Just love doing those doing those games with Cam and Red Deer. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:06 So did you work at CKRD? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:19:08 Yeah, it was Rd TV. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:19:09 And they had just actually, that was it, RDTV. Yeah, I used to get that in Edmonton. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:19:15 Yeah, it was a global thing. But yeah, it was RDTV. And you talk about a station that meant a lot to people. That was even for Manitoba. I knew of RDTV. I didn't get it on my cable pack or anything, but it was one of those stations that you knew about. And I was there for about a year. I still remember sitting at my kitchen table after I had taken that job and I look back, I don't know why I did. The appeal of being on TV and all of that was really kind of lost on me. But I got offered the job. And maybe it was because it was hey, yeah, it was kind of a nice boost to your ego or whatever. So I took this job and it was doing the 06:00 Sports and then they had like an 1130. And I remember leaving the radio station. It was my last day, and they all said, Same building. We were going from one floor to downstairs. And I remember sitting at my desk at the radio station upstairs on my last day, I was done, my shift was over and I was, I guess I need to pack up my stuff and leave. I said, what am I doing? Why am I leaving? I don't want to leave here. My first day that following Monday, went and did the 06:00. I came back home. We had just had a kid. It was our first child, and he was just a baby. And I was thinking, I have to leave for work again in about 2 hours at 08:00. I need to go back to what am I doing? It's a Monday night at 08:00 p.m.. I don't want to be going back to work. So I regretted that one fairly quickly. I had some fun. There were some good people there. Al Riddell, who was a longtime radio guy, still is. He was doing TV there as the news director. We had a great time, but I knew I wasn't long for that one. And then it was off to CHED. Everyone knows CHED very well. And I got that one. It was the year after their run, the Oilers run to the Cup Final against Carolina, 2006. Yeah, six. And then I started in September of that year. And it was tough because they lost pronger, but they had signed ROLLISON, and the thought was, came so close. Went to game seven. You're just going to have it again. And they didn't have it. That team just wasn't the same again. And that was a tough year, I think, for everyone on the team and everyone around. It was a tough one for me because I really wanted it was no different than a player. You would know this, you're going to the show. I've been doing this for whatever, 1015 years. I don't even know how long I'd been in by that point, but this was my NHL job. I'm going to get paid to go watch NHL hockey again, much like Yorkton or anything I'm done. If nothing else happens, I'll live here for the rest of my life. And it was not a good fit for me. And I look back and I don't know if that I wasn't ready. I think I just wasn't prepared to be on a rights holder station where I would just go on like we do now. You go on, you have fun, and you can this guy was no good tonight, or that guy was no good. But the relationship between Chad and the Oilers, that rights holder thing, it was a pretty serious thing. And they had a tough year because the expectations were so high. So it was not a good spot. I was getting called in. Sid Smith was the program director. And Sid is one of the best guys, and I don't know if I've worked for a better PD or a smarter guy. In his own way, he's such a good guy. Maybe you should try this and just think it. He's trying to gently direct me in the right place. The rights holder is like a comfortable chair. You're there to support the team and basically not be too critical. And I didn't think I was being too critical, but there was one road trip, and they were well out of it, mathematically, the Oilers that year, and they were going on a road trip, and they had to basically sweep this road trip. They needed so many things to go right for them to get back in or to be a legit threat at a playoff spot in game one in Boston. And they got their doors blown off. And I was doing the call in, shoot overtime open line, and somebody had called in, and Zach Storetini had just kind of started with the Oilers, and he was tough, and he was running around and didn't play in Boston. And some guy called in. He said, Why would they take Storetini out, especially in Boston? Tough teams, you got to go into Boston. I said, yeah, you know what? I don't know what they're thinking. I thought he brought energy. I like the way he's played. I don't think he's hurting you out there. And, yeah, he gives you a little bit of toughness. I don't know why they would take him out. That was my last overtime open line. I had questioned, I had called into question the coach and his decisions, and there was more leading up to it. That was the one they needed, I guess, but that was it for doing that. And I would still kind of contribute to the pre game show, and I would go to the rink and do some reporting, which was basically just gathering tape. And I knew that I was not long for there. And I do wish that it would have gone better, but it was for the best because I came to Calgary less than a year later, and it was a perfect fit. Tara Sands (VO) 00:24:02 The Sound Off podcast with Matt Cundill. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:24:05 So you mentioned about four things that I think are very, very curious. One is 2006, Cam Ward. He was shining in that Stanley Cup Final, and you've already worked with him. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:24:16 Do you know this story? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:24:17 No, I don't. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:24:19 So here's me starting at CHED. NHL. Who do I know? I know Dion Phaneuf and I know Colin Fraser. And I know Cam Ward. The three guys that I know, I'm going to impress everybody. New guy is going to get the Con Smyth Trophy winner on his evening radio show. Get Cam on the show. It was before the season had even started. I hadn't been there maybe two weeks. He's from Sherwood Park. Local guy talking to him. About how was the summer and what was it like and the emotions and all of this. It's during this interview, I see the private line flashing. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:24:55 The hotline. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:24:57 Yeah, the hotline. And I'm looking at my producer through the glass, and she kind of she's very concerned. And then I get it in my ear. You need to throw it a break. You need to throw it a break. Okay, Cam. Thanks for this. It cut it short. And someone from the team essentially called and said, get this guy off my show. Off my radio. Why is this guy on my radio show? Kind of thing. So someone with the Oilers and I know who it was, it's not important, but they it started right there. I just couldn't believe it. I thought I was hitting a grand slam home run, bringing in the Con Smyth Trophy winner, and I fouled it right off my face. So it started poorly, and it went downhill from there. And that was the year they traded Ryan Smith, which, oddly, is funny, because that kind of weaves in later, and it was the worst because he shouldn't have got traded. He didn't want to go they didn't want to trade him. It was over a few hundred thousand dollars, and the fans were upset. I remember they were doing the press conference for it, and they have all the kind of pipe and draping set up. It came crashing down before the press conference started, and somebody had said, well, isn't that appropriate? Like, everything is falling apart here this year. So it was a wild time there for sure. But, yeah, I never got in so much trouble for having a Stanley Cup champion on a radio show as I did that day. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:26:18 That story is really weird. And by the way, the next three questions I have are all about Oiler's dysfunction. Get ready here, because I got a few yeah, no, it's fine. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:26:26 It's fine. And maybe you don't do it. The nerves were very raw. It was a very sensitive time. And while he's talking about how great it is to have won and what it meant to win, if you're an oiler fan, you probably don't want to hear it. Maybe if you're a diehard, you don't want to hear about the guy who you were one game away. You went to game seven. This guy, in a way, cost you the cup. You could have won. And maybe if you're an oiler fan, it's like, why am I hearing this guy? And I think about that now. I probably still talk about it after. If you're one of the brass, you don't call up and say, get this guy the f off of my radio. And I don't know that it's the same. I don't think it is the same. But they love that team. A lot of the media that are there and were there, they've been there through the whole thing, and they ride that roller coaster. The winds feel great, and the losses hurt like hell. And I think some people who were maybe with the team, it still felt like it was the middle of the this was a big, big deal. There was a few things. I don't know if it's dysfunctional. It's just there's so much passion. And maybe if you go to Dallas, it's the same. If you're working the Cowboys beat or I'm trying to think if you go to Boston and you're working the Red Sox beat, maybe it's the same way. But Euler's hockey really, really mattered and does matter to those people, and they protect it with their life. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:27:46 I think that was a culture that started in the 80s where you could call the radio station and fix that. You're winning cups, a lot of cups. You've got a lot of star power on that team. There's an awful lot of personality. And sometime in the middle of the 90s, we would shoot our mouth off on the Bear in Edmonton. And one day I picked up the phone and Glenn Sather is yelling at me, and he said, get your guy to shut the fuck up. Who the fuck do you think you are? You guys are just a bunch of fucking assholes. Like, he's yelling at me, and so I went hey, get a load of this. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:28:17 And then I went right to the air and I said, guess who called me today and was swearing? And I threw it right back at Glenn Sager. And it was the beauty of not being a rights holder. And Marty Forbes at the time, I went and told Marty, Glen Sather yelled at me. And he goes, Whatever. Just have fun with it. But from that came a sports station that is not a rights holder, that is making money and has always made money because it is not a rights holder, and basically can call the Oilers out on all their BS. And people kind of dig that radio station at 1260 for many, many years. We had Bryn Griffiths on the show who spoke about it, and my buddy Jake Daniels, who we rode together on the air in Edmonton, he went to go do that. And that is why that station is still on the air today. And we're going to talk a little bit about the disappearance of sports radio, but that one is still there because of that experience that you had at 630 CHED, where the Oilers office can call in and make these crazy changes at any particular time. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:29:17 I mean it was a long time ago, but not that long ago, 2006 or whatever it was. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:29:21 But the culture is still there. It can be today, too. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:29:24 Yeah, it is. And I can tell you, when I was at CHED, I knew I'd have been a better fit at 1260. They're doing what I want to do and what I'm a better fit for, which is just having fun, not taking it too serious, because it was it was being taken very serious. I come to Calgary, and now I'm working for the rights holder again, and I'm hoping I'm not getting back into the same type of a scenario. And it was really night and day. It was not taken as serious. The people around the team, it was just easier to get along with. And it was Ken King. One time he called me, I want to talk to you after your show. And I'm thinking, oh, here we go. And he says, I was going to give you shit, but you said something. I think it was about J Bowmeister. He says, you run Jay, and I was going to give it to you, but then you kind of explained why you thought he didn't play well, or whatever it was. He says, I just want you to know I don't mind you ripping guys if they deserve to be ripped or if you can back it up, but if this guy sucks, he stinks, and there's nothing else of substance there, that's when he had a problem. And I think nine to ten times out of ten, if we ripped the team or had something critical to say, we could back it up. We may not have been right, but at least your opinion made sense, which I think is that's all you can ask for. If a guy has a bad game and you say he has a bad game, and then the general manager president starts firing F bombs, that's not much of a partnership. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:55 We were actually banging on Jeff Norton at the time for the Oilers, and we were saying he sucked, but that's what the common man would do. And we're not a rights holder, but that's who we were. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:31:05 And even the Media Group there was tough when I was there. And it's the way it used to be, right? If you worked for the Journal, you didn't like the sun, and if you worked for TSN, you didn't like sportsnet, or whatever the case was. And I remember one day again, I'm so deep into it now. It's a long, cold winter in Edmonton, and it's cold and it's dark, and the team's no good, and it's another one of these scrums after practice, and you're asking Why? Well, what happened in this loss? Or what happened here? And Christy Charlie was working for I think it was a channel, maybe, and her camera guy, Chris was there, but she hadn't got there. She was running behind. So Chris has got the camera on the shoulder, and it's the tripod, and he's holding this, and he's trying to hold the microphone out and do it. So I just said, I'm holding a microphone. I'll take the mic. So I was holding mine and hers, and one of the other reporters kind of looked at me as Craig Mctavish, who was the coach. He's talking, and she's kind of what do you? I don't know what I'm doing wrong. It feels like everything I could do, I'm doing wrong. Scrum ends. I hand the mic back to Chris and I was like, what happened? Why would you do that? Why would you hold her mic? I was just helping Chris. If she's not here, she doesn't get the clip. Why would you do that? That never crossed my mind. And that's how competitive even the media was against one another. Truly, it was. I was waiting, what's the next domino to fall? It felt like it was almost a self fulfilling prophecy and it was tough, man. I left Edmonton and I came to Calgary and I held a grudge for a long time. I didn't like the Oilers and I didn't like Edmonton and it was not great, but time helps. I was better off. I wasn't a good fit for them. They weren't a good fit for me. And Calgary was awesome and has been ever since. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:32:50 And Edmonton had a bunch of drama. I was going to ask you earlier about Chris Pronger and his difficulties that he had dealing with the media, but it bled into online and you mentioned Christy Chorley and there was all sorts of stuff that went on online that was a separate shitstorm. When I look back at it, it's just so strange to think that that happened. It was one of those things that could only happen in Edmonton with the dynamics of the orders, organization, the way the media and the team interacted and with the fans. So you've got three separate things all going at once, and then you throw in the online part. And thank goodness that I was working in Edmonton when there was no online because I would have no career and I'd probably be in jail. But that was a very, very weird time. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:33:38 I was at the press conference that the Ducks held because obviously he got traded to Anaheim and the return back to Edmonton. They had the press conference at the Ducks hotel the day before the game. It was weird. In some weird ballroom, they trotted Chris out. He was just going to say what he wanted to say. And he's an interesting guy. Like, he's so confident and egotistical, and it's what made him great. It's what made him who he was. He was even when he was playing, he would come and stand in front of his locker, I'm ready now. Would answer questions. And if you weren't there, you didn't get Chris Pronger that day. He wasn't going to hang around, he wasn't coming back a second time. But, yeah, it all just kind of added to it. I kind of forgot about that until you brought that up. Very weird, very unfair to her. And it'd be worse today, right? I'd be trying to think of your Twitters and all of that. I don't even know. I don't think Twitter was even around then. And I found out too. The Internet, they can pile on. And it's kind of a gang mentality a lot of times. And it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong or if it's true or false. If you fall into a certain category, for a lot of people, you just pile on and you don't care. You just go with it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:34:47 There was no social media. It was message boards. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:34:50 Yeah, brutal time, for sure. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:34:53 We've talked about Oiler's dysfunction. Tell me about the Flames dysfunction when it comes to getting that new arena. Honestly, what is the problem? This is Alberta. There's oil money, there are deep pockets. And in 90, 97, I went to the Saddle Dome. It was not attractive and I thought there'd be a new arena and there what's going on? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:35:15 And remember, there's been a flood that happened. The Saddle Dome was underwater for like ten rows. The old dome is hanging in there, but barely. You have the Conservative government, which then went NDP. Then it was back to Conservatives. We've had a mayoral change. The last mayor wasn't a big fan of the thought of paying for a rink. I don't think the new mayor is either. You then have the Calgary Stampede, which is a major player in all of it. They have a lot to say about what goes on. So you just have a lot of people with varying opinions, with very real interests in what happens. And it's just crazy. When I moved here, this city was so vibrant and you felt like you could build whatever you wanted. It was all coming. And now you laugh. Vagina and Winnipeg and Hamilton, everybody has a better football stadium. Everybody has a better rink. We don't have a baseball like in Winnipeg. The gold dies. That beautiful ballpark. Okotoks? That's little town to our south, they have a ballpark. Calgary doesn't have a ballpark. I don't get it. And the thing of it is, three years from the time you put a shovel into the ground, you're maybe completed, I don't know how it's going here. They keep coming back. They booted everybody out and they brought new people in and they've got people working in the middle to try and bring these two together. It's really sad. Ken King had the idea of putting it all under one facility and putting it at the west side of the town and everybody's, oh, I couldn't work. That couldn't work. Too much money. It probably would have been a bargain by the time this new one gets built. Whenever it does, it's really kind of silly to see how long it's taken, because there are really no further ahead. It's white noise now. Oh, there's an update on the rink. Let me know when they're digging holes. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:37:00 So you escaped to Calgary effectively, and congratulations. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:37:04 A lot of my good friends are from Edmonton. A lot of my friends are oiler fans. And that's water well under the bridge. And I'm glad that I was able to kind of leave that, but yeah, it hung with me for a while, but it was my first day and I had been to Flames games when I was living in Red Deer. This also tells you coming in, can I get a media pass in Edmonton? It was well, what are you doing? Do you have a story idea? What is the premise of your visit in Calgary? Hey, Peter Hanlon. Sean Kelso. I'm with Red Deer. Wanted to maybe come down to a game. Sure, just come by yourself or you bring in a camera guy or anybody. Sure. Pressbox it'll. Be waiting for you at the back gate. Everything was always easier and got to the rank and everything was different. You had the sports that guys like the TSN guys and the paper guys and girls all they all got along. You'd have beers after the game together, you'd go out for lunch after morning skates and stuff like that. It was a complete departure. It was a huge sigh of relief for me. And then this radio station was because I had listened to it when I was in Red Deer and I was always a fan of the fan so I just knew that that was going to be a much better fit and it was a great fit. So I was just so relieved to finally be in a spot where I square peg, square hole, perfect. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:38:19 960 on the dial. I'm all right. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:38:22 960 on the dial and started there doing afternoon co hosting and it was a tough one. Joe Sports was his name. He was on CJ and he I think he also did some, some TV sports, but he was, he was a Calgary like, he was a big celebrity in Calgary. He had fell ill and had passed away. And I remember I was in Edmonton at CHED and I was trying to get 960 on the radio through the static on the day that they had the Joe Sports tribute show. And it was an emotional one and I had listened to Joe and was a fan and they were finally at the spot now where they were going to replace them. Bruce Dobigan, Sports writer, had kind of been filling in. He didn't want to do it full time and to come in in that spot, it was a weird one in a weird way. I kind of wanted to do him justice and not suck. I just wanted to be good. I wanted this to go much better than the Edmonton experience went. And it was the first day I was staying with my buddy and his wife when I first got here and I was on from one to Five, got in my car, I was driving home and I was listening to Rob Kerr who was on doing the five to Six. And Perry Barrazanne, the former flame, was his guest on Flames at five that day. And I was listening to the thing and Perry said, hey, who's who's the new guy that you got in the afternoon? And I'm thinking, oh boy, where is this going to go? And he says, oh, it's Dean Malberg. He came in from Edmonton. He said, oh man, it was really good. You guys are good together. It sounded awesome today. I got emotional even thinking about it now with everything that went wrong for the previous year. Listen to me, I'm choked up about it. I was like, just thank you. Thank you for giving me a chance, because I needed that at that time. You can hear it in my voice. The Edmonton thing was really hard. You second guess everything. You thought you were taking your dream job, and it was eleven dark months to finally get a little bit of validation for the first time in a long time. Felt pretty good. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:40:21 I left my dream job and went to Edmonton and I got summoned to the general manager's office. And I'm like, nervous. What did I do? What did I do? You wanted to see me? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:40:31 Yeah. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:40:31 When you make your football picks for the pool, don't use a highlighter because we photocopy them and I can't really read your picks. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:40:37 So great. Oh man, it was like you're back in school again. In Brandon. It was Stu Craig. He owned it. They called it the Crystal Palace because it was the front office that actually had windows to the street. It was the Crystal Palace. Oh man. Did you get called to the Crystal Palace? We're adults. Like, we're working in the business. There was nothing better than having that fit. And Kelly Kirsch was the program director, and Kelly was good to work for because he didn't pretend to know more about sports than you did. He knew that you probably knew more about sports than he did. He was the radio guy, and he just let you create and do what you wanted to do. And we had fun in the afternoon show and we did all kinds of things. And then the morning show thing happened and he just kind of trusted that what we were doing was right. And I don't think a lot of PDS would have done it and it would have it wouldn't have worked because Mike Richards was the morning guy. When I got to Calgary and the stuff Mike was doing on the air mike is a, he's a genius. He's an artist. The bits that he would come up with on the fly during the show, something would happen and he would scurry off to his office and call the control room. Okay, just roll tape. So it'd be like, what are you doing? So he'd have his cadence and the pauses, so he wouldn't even have to edit it. So he'd come back and he'd sit down when we come back. And break. Just play it. So be. Yes. Hello. Who is this. So he'd know in the cadence, he'd have it all written out in his head. And these bits were unbelievable. Now in 2023 offside, for sure, a lot of them, and I think even at the time, because if he was in Toronto with the fan, he'd never be able to get away with it. And they were probably right. It was Alberta. It was the wild west out here. You could get away with a little bit more than you could then, but that was just another thing. I was in awe watching this guy work. And then he left to go to TSN in Toronto, and that happened really quickly and can you get up in the morning and do the morning show? And I just didn't think I was morning show material. I didn't think I was at that level. I don't think I was. But Kelly put me with Andrew Walker, who was, oddly enough, a guy that I worked with in Red Deer. So I knew him. We had a little bit, we had some chemistry, so that really helped. And I said to Andrew, we can't do Mike's show. We can't be that funny. Mike's brilliant. If we try and be Mike, we will pale in comparison. Let's do a sports show, at least to start. Let's just do a sports show and see where it takes us. And that's what we did. And I think there were some people mike's Strength probably wasn't doing legitimate sports. I was going to say hard hitting, but it wasn't even that. But if Kippersov sucked the night before, if Kippersov was great, well, he'd pretend he's calling Mika Kippersov and it would be hilarious, but you wouldn't really get the sports part of it. So we did a sports show for a bit, and over time we loosened up a little bit. I try to remember what year it was. I still talk to him about it, and he remembers better than I am. Rhett Warner used to play for the Flames. He was still on the team when I got there as afternoon guy. We were doing the intermissions on sportsnet television of a Flames game. Roger Millions is hosting Rhett, the former player. I'm the media guy. We're doing the intermission panel for people that don't know Rhett. He was kind of the common man. He'd have a beer with everybody, everybody related to Rhett. Tough guy, western Canadian, that whole thing. So Pete Flames fans loved Rhett. And Roger says, okay, so what do you want to do here, Dean? What do you want to talk about? Rhett. What do you want to talk about? And, well, can I talk about the time Kipper was drunk and fell into my Christmas tree? And Roger says, no, no, you can't say that. No, I'd rather you didn't. And I said, Come on, my morning show, I'd love to hear about it. And he kind of his ears kind of perked up and then we did the intermission thing, and afterwards I said, you know, I'm serious. If you want to come in, I'd be awesome. He's like, can you talk about stuff like that? Sure, why not? And that brought Warner Wednesdays. So Rhett. Came in every Wednesday after the first one because he came in and he kind of ripped Deon funof because he was a young the young punk and came in. He was uncoachable when he and Robin Raghir were the veterans. And this was awesome radio. I knew it was awesome. You would know what that's like, right? When you're sitting there and you can see it. This is good. I would want to listen to this. And he came back in a week, and he was good again, and then he did it the next week, and it was good again. And then Wednesdays became Mondays and Fridays, and then it was three days a week, and then before long, we just started doing it together, and Andrew left to go to Toronto, and they brought Ryan Pinder in, and it was fun, and it worked. And it was another one of those things where Kelly Kersh just said, if you think it'll work, then do it. I think it sounds good. You guys go ahead, and Rhett. Got more comfortable. He got to appreciate what people wanted to hear. I think at first he said, People don't want to hear that stupid stuff. I said no. People do. People want to hear about what happened on the plane, what happened on the bus, what happened in the locker room. We're dying to hear that. We don't get that anywhere. And he was really good at being a storyteller, and he didn't mind sharing, and God, that guy had all kinds of stories, whether they were getting hammered at Tootsies in Nashville or doing nude summer salts on the charter after a big win in Arizona. He just had all these stories and would tell them, and the show got big in a hurry, and we kind of never looked back. It was great. It was hard for him to get up in the morning. It was hard for all of us. But certainly for a guy, when you're an athlete, you don't have to do a lot of things you don't want to do. Getting up at four or 05:00 A.m. Is certainly one of them, so that kind of ground on them. But we had some fun doing that show. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:46:14 I think it's all about stories and relationships. So as you tell that story, I think back to the people that I met in Edmonton. So Anson Carter, who's a huge Godsmack fan from Boston. And Godsmack's from Boston, right? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:46:28 So that's that's a natural right there. So he was a fan of the show. And Yanni Nimena, who we had a song called Menamana, which was by a band called Skin. I'll just fire it up right here and we can play it, but it was one of those things we play every Friday and I don't know, Yanni Nimena, we worked him into the show, and even somebody who's very stoic, Doug Waitt, we could bring his personality out on the radio. And I look at today, and I think the hockey players have changed. The players aren't like they once were and willing to open up. And who can blame them with social media the way it was? We've already covered that earlier on, what happened in 2006 with Chris Pronger. But to that end, man, good on you for getting Red on the show. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:47:13 And I find myself sometimes, and I try and be conscious of it, how hypocritical the media is. These guys don't say anything, it's boring they're stuffed shirts- say something, then if they ever say something that might be a little bit offside or whatever, then we just bury them. Well, where's the incentive? Why would you ever do it, right? If you're an athlete, you only stand to lose if you have some fun or maybe say something that you might actually be feeling. So I don't blame the athletes. Not good game, bring your A game, we'll be better next game. That doesn't get you in trouble. So it's a lot of hypocrisy for sure, when it comes to stuff like that. That's why when you hear spitting chiclets, those guys are loose. There's kind of a trust with those guys. And that's why the podcast is so big, because you're getting something now more than ever. You don't hear anywhere, you're not hearing anything fun, anything real in the mainstream media, which is that's the goal of all of us now in this digital space is to try and provide something that you're not getting terrestrially or in mainstream. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:48:16 So you did eleven years of getting up in the morning to go on the radio, and I think one of the successful parts of your show was not breaking down the power play. Line one and two, let's talk about the third line center. That stuff makes me crazy when I hear that on sports radio. I think nobody actually really wants to get that deep into it. Maybe there's a time for it after a loss, after a game, maybe. But the next day we've moved on. Did you get up for eleven years at 03:00 A.m.? You look good. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:48:44 Well, I've been sleeping in for a few months now. I was talking about this, I think it was yesterday, we had lunch with a potential client who I've known for a long time. Do you miss getting up? And it's like, no, because when you were doing it oh, do you like getting up? Do you like mornings? No, I hate it. It's the worst part of the job. I always used to say, I start the clock when my alarm goes off. I'm getting paid at 31323, I'm not on the air, I'm getting paid. That's part of that salary is to. Get up, because I was done doing mornings in June of last year, and I don't think I've had a cold or a sniffle or I haven't been sick. And Pinder was like, yeah, that's right. You were sick all the time. You just felt like you were always dealing. You're taking some Dristan, nasal something, and your throat's all sore. No good for your health. So, yeah, I guess it was eleven years Mike left, and then I never stopped doing mornings until last June. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:49:38 Did you see the incoming? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:49:40 You know, I did for multiple reasons. First and foremost, it was the sleep and getting older, right? I like to think I'm not an old dude, but over those ten years, you look back and my wife and I couldn't go out on Fridays, because by then you've lost so much sleep, you feel like it's kind of that accumulation thing that by Friday you've lost 3 hours. Monday, 3 hours, you're out a night and a half of sleep. At least by the time Friday, I can't sit up through a movie, tired of dinner, I can't stay up. So we wouldn't do things Friday. Weekends were tough. Sunday, by the end of the second football game, by like five or six, I'm grumpy. I'm in a pissy mood again because I got to get up in the morning. One of the things that was kind of the the real indicator to me, it was a Saturday morning, and I was in the kitchen making breakfast, and my daughter walks in, and I was whistling or whatever, and she walked in, she said, Jeez, Daddy, how come you're in such a good mood? And I didn't think I was in a particularly good mood. I was just whistling in the kitchen. And I got to know she left, and I was sitting there making eggs. It's like, is that really that's where we're at? Dad's in a good mood? If he's whistling, what am I like, if I'm in a bad mood, that's tough. And there were some other times where somebody said, oh, vacation boomer is fun. Went on a trip to Miami to watch the flames. And I wasn't doing the morning show, so I was getting normal sleep. So, yeah, I'm out at night and having drinks, and we're having a good time. All vacation boomer is fun. We just thought you were kind of a quiet, introverted guy, like, no, that's not me. It's so I knew I had to do it, and I had wanted to do it for so long. And I think you would know what this is like. You go on vacation, maybe you're in a rut, and you get energized and you get charged and you start thinking, maybe I can do this with the show, I can do that. My radio show when we get back. And that holiday, it gives you that false sense that it'll be different now, and within a few days you'd get back and you're nuts. If you keep doing this shift, it's never going to change. So I didn't hate what I was doing. I just knew that I couldn't do mornings anymore. I had already done afternoons. And then there was the other side of just seeing where everything was going. Cutbacks, firings, downsizing. You talk about it a lot on this podcast. And honestly, I've listened to this podcast for years and have seen where it's going. You'd have to be blind not to see where it's going. And I didn't quit to do a podcast. I quit because I was just done. I kind of thought in the back of my head, if something doesn't work out, maybe I can do a podcast or I'll figure it out. But yeah, it was a long time coming and it was hard. I got choked up with you a moment ago. That last show, I think I cried from start to finish, but it was all I ever wanted to do. I love radio. As a kid, I loved it. I would drive around in my car and hit the post to songs on my cassette deck. I was so proud when people say, oh, so what do you do? I do a radio show. I host it. Oh. Instantly, there's that kind of element of cool. It's an ice breaker. I just loved it. And to walk away, man, it did. It took me years. And even when it was done, I remember just walking out of the building that day, almost like in Red Deer. Are you doing the right thing? What are you doing? But it was time. I was just done. Tara Sands (VO) 00:52:54 Transcription of the Sound Off Podcast is powered by the Podcast Superfriends, five podcast producers who get together to discuss podcasting. Sharpen your podcast and creation skills by following the show on the Sound Off Podcast YouTube or Facebook page. Mary Anne Ivison (VO) 00:52:54 This Podcast supports Podcasting 2.0. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now. If you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at newpodcastapps.com. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:53:26 Now you tell people you're a podcaster and they think that you're alone in a basement with porn mags. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:53:31 Do you get over it? Does it ever get better? Because you've been doing it for a long time now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:53:37 No, it doesn't. But I tell people that I manage podcasts now, and they think that's a little bit cool. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:53:43 But you know what? It's different now because I think people are becoming aware of what it is because more people are listening to it than ever. And I know for me, you talk about being hypocritical. It was at least two years that I was still doing the radio show. I never listened to the radio. I'd get in my truck, I'd drive home and listen to a podcast. I'm listening to you. I'm listening to Dan Lebotard. I'm listening to Pat McAfee. I wasn't listening to the radio I didn't have the appetite, desire, or the I wasn't going to sit through commercials. I wasn't going to sit through content. I didn't want to listen to. I only had so much time. I got a 20 minutes drive home. I'm going to listen to exactly what I want to listen to at this exact moment. And it's becoming more and more a thing people ask. I haven't listened to the station since I left. I haven't really listened. I just want to rear view mirror it. I don't want to feel emotional about it or anything like that. It was awesome. I love my time. I'm still very fond of radio and all of that, but now I'm focused on doing this, and I believe in it, and I think it can work. It is. It's the future. There's no doubt about it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:54:51 I know times have changed because I say, I do a podcast, and people now say, oh, what's it about? And can I listen? Can I find it? And years ago, it used to be strange, but now it's like, oh, I want to follow you, or I want to subscribe to your show. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:55:05 I think what it is, is, oh, you can do that for a living, because I think it's still in some people's heads that, oh, you're doing a podcast. What is it about? Is it about music? Is it about movies? Is it about your hobby? That sort of thing. Whereas now it's what we're doing. We're trying to sell it, and we're doing it daily, and we're treating it like a job, which I know is kind of one of those things. If you've listened to the Sound Off podcast, a lot of the guests will tell you you have to do it with frequency and regularity, and you have to treat it like a job, because if you don't and people can't rely on it, you're going to lose them. I don't treat it any differently than I did the radio show. It's not like it's Lucy Goosey. Whatever. I watch every game. I take notes during the game. I get up in the morning. I print off all the stuff. I am as prepared, maybe more, because I have more time in the morning now than I did to do the morning show. I'm as prepared or more to do this podcast now every day than I was before. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:56:02 Tell me, you've got three kids, and I'm not sure if they're out the door or they're still in the house, but you're thinking about making this transition from radio to can I do this and make a living? That's an incredibly difficult decision. And jump. And how did you process it to the moment when you said, okay, I'm going to jump and we're going to do this? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:56:22 My wife's amazing. She was telling me to do it. I mean, she had to live with me. She had been telling me to do it for a while. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:56:29 Well, she has a vested interest because she doesn't want cranky. Dean exactly. Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:56:33 So if my daughter's telling me, why am I in a good mood? You can imagine my wife, but she does well. She's a pharmacist. And she said, look, we'll find a way. It's not like you're not employable. You're going to find a job. People like you, you can do things. And to this point, it's still one of those things that I do struggle with, to be honest, because I wasn't making great money. But by the time you're in radio for a while, you're doing Mornings, you're doing okay, and then you just walk away. And now you're starting from scratch. You do you wonder, have I done the right thing? I know I've done the right thing. You just hope financially that you still get to go on a vacation here and there the Christmas, there's still stuff for the kids that they like under the tree. But it's all her. She says, we will find a way. You will find a way. Do not. If the only reason you're staying is because of money, then quit right now. And it took me a long time to do it. And unfortunately, I think for a lot of people, they may not have that support that I have with her. Because I don't think if I didn't have her, I would still be getting up at 03:00 A.m. And miserable and tired and grumpy and all of that. So you need a good partner, and I've got one. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:57:41 Tell me about the release schedule for the podcast as it pertains to the hockey games. I think that when you have a sports podcast, the quicker you can get the episode out, the better you're going to do, because people are really hungry for that postgame analysis. And when you do a show, how far are you looking ahead to when it would expire, say, like milk in your fridge, that okay, this episode is really going to be good for the week or till the next game. What's your thought process when you guys are doing the show? Dean Molberg (Guest) 00:58:09 When we started, and even to this point, essentially we're doing the show on the Internet as a podcast right now. And because it's daily, I don't think we worry too much about however green it is. I'm kind of conscious because I'm kind of out of all the three of us, I've got the radio sensibilities and I've been invested in how podcasts work and that sort of stuff, listening to guys like you and all of that. We don't need breaking news. We're not doing it right now. So you have to get that radio out of you. You got to get into that new way of thinking about things. And it's taken a while. I look to guys like you because I do wonder, how is that going to change? How do you change with it as the people become more and more familiar with the show. Are there things that they know that they're going to get but are there things they know that they're just not going to get? And how do you kind of mold it and and shape it? But we do Barn Burner every day from roughly ten. We start at about 1030. And that's going to change because we're getting a little bit more in terms of flexible within our network. I don't want to bore you with it, but we started kind of from coast to coast. It starts in Toronto with the Leaf Station and then Ottawa comes in and then Frank Seravelli does his daily stuff. So we kind of don't get to start because our producer is tied up till about 1030 mountain time. So it kind of takes away from that flexibility of doing the podcast. We can start whenever, but that is going to change. We're going to have our production in house, which is going to be great. It'll give us flexibility as far as start time, run time and all of that. But we've now started doing the post game show, which is after Burner, and it's been bigger than we thought. And I knew that it was going to be. And I listened to you talk with Adam Seaborne, who's with Playmaker, our parent company. And you need to just superserve give more stuff, more content, more content. And it's fresh for the morning commute. Get it out post game. Do it. You've got to do it 910 o'clock at night, but it's there for people in the morning. Your show from yesterday, the Barn Burner, it's dated now, but you've provided some new stuff for the morning drive in. And we were kind of canning it. We weren't doing it live, even though we don't edit ever. We're so used to doing live broadcasts. But we were recording it and then putting it up on YouTube. And the other night we did it live for the first time. I said, I just don't know why are we bothering? It's extra work for producers to do afterwards. If it's up on YouTube, it's up on YouTube. Let's just go. And it was one of the biggest ones we had. We just watched the chat. Boom, boom. They all just started flying through in the numbers. You could see, well, who's watching? The numbers went up at 100, 200, 304. It just started going up and up and up. So we're learning. We've been doing this for four months. It feels like four years because there's so much to do. Because we're kind of doing it all. We joined the nation network and they're kind of doing the back end stuff, which is great social media and some of the production and that. They're helping us with sales and all the other stuff. But there's so much to learn and there's so much to do and I don't know if we're doing it right. We're learning a lot. You won't like this because I know you give Blendell a hard time about video. I'm shocked at how many people watch the way they consume the podcast is to watch it on YouTube. They don't download it on their they don't listen to it. They watch it. I was talking to a guy who drives two, 3 hours a day. I put it on YouTube, I put it on my dashboard. Don't tell the police. I put it on my dashboard. I watch. That's how I take it in, by the way. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:01:44 He's a weirdo. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:01:46 Yeah. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:01:46 And so is the person who attempts to cut what's left of my hair. I said, well, what do you listen to? He goes, so I listen to DAX Shepard and I said, well, how do you do it on YouTube? I said, well, why don't you just get it on Spotify? Like, who is driving around watching a podcast and people are doing it and a lot of people say and listen, I'm not a fan of the video. This will not be on video, but this will be on YouTube with just a card, just a little placeholder. Because YouTube is the second biggest search engine in the world. And this is how people find you. And people will type in Calgary Flames because they want information about their team and you're going to pop up. So that's a good thing. One of the biggest podcast episodes we've ever done is with Corey Carter. Corey Carter is the program director of a radio station called Wixx, which means absolutely nothing until I tell you that it's located in Green Bay and this is a radio station that carries the packers, but they, you know, do it through a Milwaukee radio station. So but people are just googling and looking for this stuff all the time. And to that end, and now you've met the person who is actually physically watching YouTube while driving. So I didn't think it was possible because I actually stand up and do presentations and I say people are not consuming content this way. Well, it turns out they are. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:03:01 They are. And we're fortunate because we did invest in having a video component. So we got decent cameras and lights. We wanted it to look good. Again, I thought we're just supporting the audio. So when you go to Twitter or Facebook, whatever, there's a video clip of Rhett warner saying the markstrom stinks. You're more apt maybe to click on it if there's video than if there isn't. So that was all we were doing video for, was to support the audio. I think we're 60 40, 60% download, 40% stream on YouTube, which had no idea. And again, that radio sensibility comes in for me. Okay, well, how do we got to lean into that? What more visual components can we bring? Are we going to do segments only with visual stuff? Do we need more video? Do we bring in crazy hats? I don't know. We're kind of doing a TV show at the same time as we're doing a podcast. It makes you rethink things a bit. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:03:56 Well, this is why radio is failing. And it's because if I ask you, Dean, do you care how I consume you? No, but radio, they do. They said, well, we're only really selling thirty s and sixty s. And I don't really know the online thing. That's just digital dimes. And that's why they're having such a hard time with the digital aspect of. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:04:16 It, what we're learning. And it's not a shot against radio, but as we as consumers, we kind of want it differently. We want it our way. So too do the people that spend their money. We've only done it a short time, but in the conversations we've had with clients, they're tired of being handed a sheet of paper. Here's what it costs for thirty s, and here's what it is for sixty s. And this is the package. Would you like it? Where we can sit down and say, what do you want? When you think of your company, is it something that's kind of light hearted? Is it something that's more serious? We have a segment that's about this. Do you want to own that segment or do you just want to come up generically? Hey, I went to this bar, we had a hell of a time. They had this special on Wings on Thursdays. What do you want? That's what they want. They too are tired of not being able to have the media the way they want it. And it's been great. Whether it's testimonials or having some fun. Again, it's the video component that you can add to it. We brought on it's. The hearing loss clinic. Guy in town, great, great guy, sports fan, sponsors the Flames 30 Years of Radio. My ears are not good. I said to him, I said, I should come in and see you because my hearing is shot. Well, now all of a sudden we can do that. We go in with the camera. Well, here's boomer going through the hearing loss process. So it's content for what we're doing. You have some fun, you make it entertaining, and it's great for him. You can't do that with radio. You just can't do it. So I love radio, I still do, but I do worry about it for sure. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:05:49 What's in your ears right now? Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:05:51 It's not an ifb, it's little sure earphone things. They're noise canceling. So I don't need to have it quite as loud as the cans that I used to wear the cans because. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:06:02 We were talking about video and a lot of people asked me, do I have to wear these headphones because I look silly when I'm on the video? And I'm like, it doesn't matter. But I mean, you've done TV, so, you know, and I'm going to put a link to buy those for anybody who does want to make a purchase of that audio. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:06:17 Yeah, it's the sure two forty five S, I think they are. They aren't that expensive, but the foam that you have in there, it compresses, so you kind of give it a squeeze and it goes and then it expands. And I don't hear myself because it's so quiet, but it's nowhere near as loud and it's way easier. And I think because we're doing video, maybe it's less distracting, I don't know. But I find for me, it's better than having the big ones where I had to crank them all the time. So I could have used these 2030 years ago. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:06:49 I don't advise using noise canceling headphones when you're doing a podcast because you want to be able to hear what the output is. But a lot of people are going to love those. The other thing is, I know it talks a little bit about YouTube and getting into video. I just want to preface to listeners that if you're looking at your podcast and think, I get this many YouTube views and I get this many downloads, therefore I'm just going to go to YouTube. Just be careful how you count because it's going to be a minute of listening. That's going to be a download on the podcast. And YouTube, it can be 1 second, where somebody just hits Play. So the numbers aren't the same. So be very careful if somebody is making a decision to say, well, I'm just going to go to YouTube because I get a lot more traction there. But you may not be, so be careful. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:07:30 Yeah. And I think it's got to be Scatter shot. You do it all. Oh, I'm not on Facebook. Put it on Facebook. People are on Facebook. My kids, I just last week finally downgraded my cable. I still want to have because I need to see the Flames games. I need sportsnet. No one watches TV in my house anymore. They watch YouTube. They watch TikTok. That's what they're taking in. And I'm done paying for. They were laughing this morning. I told them we got rid of the cable. They're like, oh, I can't see Nickelodeon anymore. It was a comedy bit in my house that they weren't going to be able to watch Disney Channel anymore. It's all YouTube and that. So I got to get on the TikTok, right? I got to go to the Safeway and get my groceries. You got to put it everywhere because people are everywhere. But sadly, I don't know that they're in their car listening to the radio much anymore. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:08:19 What's your relationship with Playmaker? How do you get paid? And I know that's a very, very nosy question, because when I advise people on where they should put their podcast and you and I did have some discussions about what to do, I said, well, you can own your IP and do it yourself, or you could sign on with someone. And I don't know what a deal like that entails. So what's the structure? If you want to share that. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:08:42 No, not nosy at all. We were approached because we all ended up quitting. So how it worked, we were all doing the morning show at 960, and he had walked away once, and then when COVID hit, he was allowed to do the show from wherever he wanted to do it. You didn't have to be in studio anymore. That sounded great to him. So he ended up he was in in the States. His wife was from the US. So they were in Fort Lauderdale. They were all over the place during COVID He was very happy to be down in Florida. They didn't care about COVID this much down there. And he leaned into that. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:09:19 Well, Texas and Florida didn't have COVID. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:09:22 Yeah, there was none who knew. So, yeah, so then he came back in, but even after that one year, it was still early mornings. He was just he was done, and it's just not fun to do it. It's morning. I was I was done, and Ryan Pinder, my other co host, his wife had gotten cancer, and all of a sudden, everything takes a backseat in life. And doing that show was a distant 20th, 30th, 40th, most important thing, and it was all kind of hit at the same time. And here I thought I was kind of letting everybody down. I didn't tell the guys right away that I was I was emotionally done. I had to leave. They were all ready to leave, too. So the summer hits, and I'm in Phoenix, sitting in a pool, and they're off doing their own thing. And Frank? Sarah valley. He's with the nation. Net. He's with daily Face Off was on TSN and sportsnet. He was our hockey guy, I think still is on 960. He calls and so what are you doing? Said, I'm just sitting in the pool. What are you doing? What's your plan? Like, I see you quit and that's great, but what are you doing? I honestly don't know. I don't know. You should talk to my guy Jay. Jay downton in Edmonton. He's with Oilers Nation. They have flames, nation. They got bought by this company called Playmaker. They are looking to expand Flames Nation. They want to start doing more down there. I said these guys were doing the morning show. I don't know if they're going to do it again or what they're doing. I'm like, okay. The one thing I had said is have every conversation, even if you don't think it's a thing, talk to everybody, take in everything. So I thought in the back of my mind, maybe I'll write for the website or I'll blog or I'll do something with Frank sat down and would you get the band back together? I said, do you have to talk to those two? Because when we were done, we were all very happy to be done but because of the flexibility that you have with this, you're not getting up. You can do it from home, you can do it on vacation. Under those circumstances, maybe it is something that would work. And it took a little while, but we talked about it and they did everything that we couldn't do. And for me, it was going to be a struggle. I told the guys, I said, if we're going to do this on our own, which we hadn't even thought about, I don't want to be cutting video and audio and social media and prepping for a show and being a husband, I'll be worse off than I was in the first place. The Nation Network says, we'll do your social media. We'll give you a producer. We'll put together a studio because we were thinking of doing it anyway for the guys that are already there. And we got a guy that does sales. He'll help you out. We'll work together, we'll work on a profit share. We'll work that out and see where we're at. We just said, yeah, okay, let's give it a shot. At that point, it was basically September into October. What the hell else are we going to do? Let's give it a shot. And it's funny, the sales guy that they were going to have us help out from Edmonton, he lives in Calgary now because he came here and kind of saw the appetite. We were very lucky. The show was very popular on the radio. It continues to be very popular. There's a lot of opportunity here. So he has moved to Calgary to kind of handle everything that's going on. We've hired extra producers. We've got more shows coming. We have a studio in Marta Loop, which is kind of a cool little neighborhood. And like I say, it's been four months. I can't believe how far it's gone in four months. So, yeah, they do the back end stuff. We do some of the content, we help out on sales, we work on kind of a revenue share and we go from there. And as it sits right now, I'm not retiring next year, but it's better than I really thought it was going to be. And it continues to get stronger and it's been fun, it's been freeing. You know what it is? It's everything that you said it was. It's yours, you own it. It's your stuff. You don't have sales coming in and saying, we can't be saying that because we can't do this, or you don't have promotions coming in and saying, we need you to do this. I laughed with a guy we were talking to yesterday. He says, well, what if I've got kind of two parts of the company? What if I want this week to be this, and this week we're going to talk about the other one? I said, Text me, just send me a text. Whereas before you contact your sales guy and the. Sales guy. He'll pass it by the sales manager, and the sales manager will talk to the programmer, who then will maybe go to promotions. Then you've ought to go to Copywriting, and then you need to get the text me next week. We'll talk about the other half of your company. And I think that that's the other part. Like I said, I think for the clients, they're kind of taken back. It's just it can be that easy. And it works so far. Knock on wood. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:14:01 So you're saying that you're not going to give away any oil changes on your show? Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:14:07 Oh, man. Fred Jacobs I listen to those and I hear the passion that's still there for radio and how do you fix it? And then in the same interview, he talks about, none of my kids listen anymore. I feel for them. I'm not at that Dean Blundell level where it's like strip it, burn it down. They're man shutting at the clouds. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:14:27 But you mean driving away from the bridge he burned? Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:14:31 Yeah, he did pretty well, as I recall. But no, I feel for them because I don't have the answers. I know how I've been taking in my entertainment and my content, and it's not through cable TV and it's not through terrestrial radio. The hypocrisy of working on the radio and never consuming it, that ended last year. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:14:52 Your media ecosystem is on your phone. I don't know that if you're able to draw the line back to your dream job at CHED, but you look at something like Euler's Nation, nation Network, which is an Edmonton product that I believe is built and constructed in Rose because of the dysfunction at CHED. And the Oilers that we spoke about earlier gave rise to a property like that. And now look, you're on it. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:15:19 And to bring it, you talk about bringing it all back around. That whole thing with Jay Downton and the guys in Edmonton, it started with a website that they built, Bring Smitty Home. When they traded Ryan Smith, the fans got together and they were upset that Smith was gone. It was either keep smitty forever or keep smitty home. I was there when it all started and that was 2007. And they started writing blogs and doing fan pages and boards and all of that. And yeah, in Edmonton, it started faster. Just the disapproval that people have for I guess, mainstream media, people want to want honest. They want people to talk to them honestly. You don't want to feel like you're being given stilted information or what the man wants you to hear. And I'm not. It's not to that level, but it's just honest. That's where we're at. We're very fortunate that this space exists where you can download a podcast or go somewhere where you trust that person and what they're going to give you is the truth as they see it. And that's what we do. And I'll tell you Rhett's been great the last little bit because the Flames have been struggling here and he's been shooting from the hip more than I even thought he was going to. He loves Darryl. Sutter played for him, took him to the Game Seven in 2004. But he'll criticize Darryl right to the end. The team he loves, the team played for the Flames for a long time. If he doesn't agree with the way they're doing it, it's not shot jockery. It's the way he feels and people know it and that's why they listen. To have that genuine realness to it is something that we've never had through traditional media. I know I couldn't do it. I did a little bit of it and it nearly got me thrown out the door, so it's a breath of fresh air. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:17:02 Dean, thanks so much for being on the podcast. I appreciate it and continued success. Dean Molberg (Guest) 01:17:07 Matt, you are doing awesome work and I know that you hear the testimonials. If you're thinking about doing a podcast, hey, do it. Even if you still got your job, just do it. Start recording, get online, get a microphone, get the gear. Matty will tell you what to buy. Just start doing it, and listen to what he's saying because it's not going away. And I owe you a lot because I listened- honestly, to come on the Sound Off podcast is awesome to me because I did I was in my vehicle listening to this show for so long. I've learned so much from you just by listening to you. Thanks. You know what you're doing. Keep it up. Matt Cundill (Host) 01:17:43 Thanks! I appreciate that. Tara Sands (VO) 01:17:44 The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill. Produced by Evan Surminski. Social media by Courtney Krebsbach. Another great creation from the Soundoff Media Company. There's always more soundoffpodcast.com.

If you've ever wondered what our show might look like if it was built by a millennial, look no further than The Radio Fam. It's a YouTube-first podcast that's not unlike this one, and today's guest is its owner and creator, Marie. The Radio Fam's mission statement is to break the mold of mainstream radio stations' crappy social media integration. All the way back in 2009, Marie was aware that most stations weren't doing enough to build their brands through the internet, which was where the idea for The Radio Fam began. It didn't come to fruition until 2017, but thankfully for Marie (and unfortunately for the rest of the industry), most radio stations were still just as behind then as they were 8 years before. Nowadays, it's a place for people to connect with one another, and in their own words from TheRadioFam.com, it's "a resource for those that are looking to the future of radio," which is no doubt something more people in the radio business need to do. In this episode, Marie tells us about her lifelong passion for radio, from growing up listening to the stations in and around Seattle, to volunteering for their street teams in her free time, and eventually landing proper paid roles in marketing and promotions. She also talks to us about her eventual shift to podcasting, and goes deeper on what inspired her to start The Radio Fam. If you like what you hear from Marie in this episode, you should definitely check out The Radio Fam on YouTube, as well as dropping them a follow on all the usual social media, which can be found at the bottom of their website. Marie also made mention of an episode she had coming out featuring a Millennial who is now in management. That episode with Dan Hardee is out and there are some great tips on managing millennials in here. Transcript: Tara Sands (VO) 00:00:01 The Sound Off Podcast. The podcast about broadcast with Matt Cundill starts now. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:11 There's another show that's like this one, that set out on a journey to find ways for people in radio to connect, share ideas, and get better at what they do. It's called The Radio Fam. It's Millennial, YouTube-firs,t and features more personalities and marketing people. After all, they are on the front lines. Marie started the show a few years ago, but it has grown into so much more, including merchandise. Give The Radio Fam a subscribe on YouTube right now. It's worth it. Here we go. Marie joins me from Tacoma, Washington. When did you become such a big fan of radio? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:00:48 I mean, probably when I was a kid. I would always kind of listen, but I think really what I wanted to work in, it was more like 2006 after a station launched the Seattle area that I wanted to be a part of. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:59 What are your first radio memories? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:01:01 My first memories are honestly, like, my parents listening to radio. So they would listen to this guy, T-Man in the morning, and he was on Q93 out in Seattle. And so I would just hear just kind of how morning shows work. He would also make fun of the morning show hosts on the AC station. So he was kind of a shock jock. My parents would go to some of their events they would do, because they were that age at the time. And so that was my very first memories of kind of knowing what- that there was DJs and stuff like that involved. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:29 And when did you know you wanted to be involved with radio? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:01:32 So the station that I liked, this country station, I was, like, super into country. And there was this new station that had launched called The Wolf, and they were coming out in a very top 40 sort of way and just coming out just with a bang, really. And I love marketing. So the promotion that they started with was something called The Quest for a Million Listeners. So people would call in and say, hey, I pledged to listen to The Wolf now, so add me to the list, sort of thing. But then they would encourage people to switch your friends over, and your family. So you'd call in and say, hey, I got my brother to start listening with my mom and myself. So I want to pledge three people to the million, so Theater of the Mind. They had sound effects and everything going on, and I'm like 20 at the time, and it sounds like they have volunteer- They're talking about that they have volunteers answering calls, taking these pledges down. And it just sounded so fun, and I just wanted to be a part of it. So I asked the night Jock like, hey, can I be one of the volunteers? And I think he didn't want to give it away because he never really gave me a clear answer other than, no, you've can't. So then I just sort of took it into my own hands, I guess. And I liked to mess around. We have sort of like a Photoshop program, I guess. And I made a flyer to hang on my pickup truck, and it just said, honk if you pledged to listen to 100.7 the Wolf. And then I hung it on my truck, and then I would go roll my windows down, just drive around Seattle/Tacoma area, tallying honks. So then I would call and be like, so five people honked, and yeah, and that's really where the interests started, was kind of forcing myself into the promotion that I wasn't a part of. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:58 Well, you're a promotion and marketing department's absolute dream, when you can get the listeners to go out and do the work for them. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:03:08 Right? Yeah, exactly. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:10 So no surprise you went in to go and answer phones and take pledges. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:03:14 Yeah, well, actually and during, while I was taking the Callies and calling them and forcing this information in on them, they were doing a remote in my area, and I wanted to win tickets to whatever they were giving away. But since the promotion was still going on, the sign was still on my truck. So when I pulled up, their promotion team was actually like- first of all, they gave me a free T shirt because they liked my spirit on the truck. And then they were like, you should apply to work in our promotions department. And I was like, okay. And I didn't think I'd get it because, again, I lived in Tacoma, and this is in Seattle. It's 40 minutes away, no traffic, and they liked my stuff. And then so then they hired me on that summer of 2006, and I turned 21 that summer and really got to dive into the radio marketing side. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:54 How did you cope with that 40 minutes drive? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:03:56 It was fine because I loved it at the time, especially, I'm, like, young, and I loved not being home, so I would just drive around in my car. Plus, I had a full time job too, so it was just like a grind. I was working my full time job, which was a manager at a movie theater. And with any free time I had, I would volunteer to go work at the station. Because sometimes they'd have people just come in and do, like, admin work. We just need help in the office. So I'd volunteer just so I would be in their face, I guess. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:04:22 You're entering radio at this incredible time, because the next year, 2007, which is really the beginning of the age of acceleration, along comes this thing called Facebook, and now something called Twitter started, and we start to gear up into this full millennial mode. And you're at the center of it because you're full on millennial. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:04:45 Yes. I was on MySpace. I was one of the people that was actually trying to create- I created a MySpace for the movie theater I worked for, and the corporate told me to take it down right away. But it's just kind of funny because that's what people started doing later, was creating these social media pages for their actual businesses. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:01 Do you still have the MySpace page? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:05:03 No. I wish I did, because they made me delete it. But if I would have known what I know now, I would've. I'm so mad. I didn't keep it, but it had information about the movie theater was like when we opened, when our times were, and I put pictures from the employee- like, I used to take my digital camera around, so I had pictures of the employees. We were just living a movie theater life and just put it there. But it lasted maybe three months before they made me delete it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:25 What was your next job in radio? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:05:27 That one was- so then I did that for three months, and then I moved to Colorado Springs. I was visiting a friend out there over that summer of 2006, and I had noticed that they had a brand new country station that started, and it was so new that it didn't have any jocks on it. So by the time I had decided to actually move out to Colorado, I was like, well, I know it's a new station. I'm going to go reach out. So I moved there in 2000- or in October of 2006. And then, yeah, I called the program director, I think, and left him a voicemail and just basically said that, hey, I worked in promotions in Seattle for 100.7 the Wolf. Do you guys have any need for promo help? And they did. It took a few months to actually get me on. They brought me on as like a promotions- I'm producing remotes for the country station, but then I kind of evolved into promotions coordinator. So I was doing a lot of the scheduling of the remotes for our Top 40 station, country station and Rock station. Plus I was also working the remotes. So I'd be like, at one bar that was like a country bar. And then later I'd have to go work the nightclub that night or something and kind of was all over the place. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:25 So the two things that have really struck me the most about you so far is that you're really into marketing, and you're really into radio. And you're telling this and I'm thinking, she's drinking from the hose now. I'm not sure if I should use the Gen X expression here, but you're full on here with a rock station and a country station. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:06:45 Yeah. I was worried to even work in Top 40 because I didn't know- because I worked just in country for so long. But then I got into it and kind of just learned- really, I liked how the stuff was formatted more fast paced, being on site to do things because there was no reason, especially why country stations can't do the same thing. And I think really the marketing arm that excited me is because of all the social media that started happening. I was kind of like, wow, not only can we do this stuff on the street, because really the big thing in Seattle was they were very big on like, your logo has to be everywhere. Like, if we'd go banner something, it would have to be the entire city of Seattle. You wanted to look and just see our logo everywhere. So once Facebook and Instagram started to be a thing, I was like, oh, well, there's just another place we can just have our logo. And I was really big on digital marketing at that point. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:07:33 You're one of the early adopters to the digital marketing, but you've got some people in the offices who may not be. And I mentioned sort of 2007, the age of acceleration, and I think there were radio people who didn't really know what to do with social media platforms. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:07:49 No, they didn't. And it really made me second guess what I- because there was stuff I saw, and so I would say it, and it was like, that never got any backing, or it'd be like, no, that's not... and then I was like, okay, well, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I was like, maybe I just don't understand radio sales marketing. But then kind of the more I got confidence in myself into just starting things on my own and realizing how they worked, made me start to get a little more into that, and that kind of really- I really took a chance on that. I'd say, first of all, I was in Colorado Springs, that job, for four years. But then I got a job, I went to Denver, and I did that because at this time, I don't know if people started to have the pages where you could actually like, because you could friend the personality, but then we could actually make the business pages. And so I was ready to move into a different market. So I wanted to show program directors, I guess, and marketing people that I could also have valuable social media. So I created a separate Facebook page, and I would- if we were going out and I was working a remote with this jock, I would post it as the same thing, you know, hey, we're going to be out at Gasoline Alley from seven to nine. We're giving away tickets to this, come meet the jock and myself. And it was just kind of like wanting to get people's attention. And I was trying to friend a bunch of people in radio, too, and then it eventually worked because then I was trying to look out of state, but up in Denver, up in Denver, when I was in Colorado Springs, a program director reached out and was kind of like, hey, I like what you're doing. I see what you're doing. Are you ever interested in coming up to Denver? So then I did, and that was in 2011, but it was really the end of 2012, 2013, where I said, I'm just going to take this Instagram thing, and I created an Instagram for that radio station. And they weren't against me doing it. They just weren't supporting it at all. They weren't telling people about it on the air. They weren't pushing people. It was all me doing it. When I saw that start to grow, and the fact that I could see it growing without any support, I think that's when it really clicked for me. Like, wait a second, we're really missing out on this social media stuff. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:09:44 As I think back, and I always wanted to try every toy in the box when it came to social media. I'm the program director and I can't tell you how many radio station social media accounts that I started and I'm like, why am I doing this? How come it's on me to do this? You must have started a few and there might even be some popular call letters that you started the account for. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:10:05 Yeah, actually there were kind of some randoms, like there was like the radio stations like that. There was actually a couple of secretive ones. But then, yes, some kind of just random when I was trying to find my spot. I do art, so I had like an art one, but none of them were really taking off the way I think- again, since I have the passion behind the radio, is I think why those took off a little more. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:10:25 How many times did you approach an on air personality, and you would tell them about the Facebook or the Instagram page. They would have one foot up on the console, sitting back in their chairs saying, yeah, it's not going to be anything. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:10:36 I think at that point it was just a tone. So I can't really say, oh, I remember this conversation, or remember it was just kind of like a- I mean, I think I've always had that too, just kind of being a young female also in the industry, as people kind of just look at me as, oh, the intern, that's cute, what you're you're working on. And so I would really just have to do stuff by demonstrating. It just more like, it wasn't really at that point really getting dismissed. It was just like cute little project that you're working on. And actually it was just that. February 14 was a ten year anniversary, I guess of it was, because the Instagram, I just started it, and I saw early on too, that the thing with Instagram and social media, people really liked props and photo opportunities and stuff that they could share. And I thought like, wow, again, what a great way to tie in on site promotions into marketing. So I had, like, a $15 budget. And Carrie Underwood and Hunter Hayes were playing a show for Valentine's Day. So I just went to the craft store because again, I make crafts, and I made this giant valentine's, essentially. So one said, Hunter, be mine. And then the other one said, Carrie, I love you, or something like that. And then I made one with like our has stationed hashtag on it, and we happened to have a step and repeat. So it's like I brought out a step and repeat and we had this cardboard cut out of Carrie. It wasn't quite life size, but almost. And I was like, you know what, it's props. People like to take pictures with stuff. But it was just me and my intern. Like, we're the only people that were behind it. So we set up the step and repeat. I was posting on Instagram, hey, come see us out at our photo booth. There wasn't a ton of people that came by, but enough people were excited. It was cold. We didn't have a ring light at the time, so it was just like one of those crappy industrial lights, so it's all yellow, shining on everybody. But that was really, again, one of those things like, this is where we can tie it in. But it was just me and this intern doing it. Our station wasn't behind it or anything. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:18 You said something that was quite poignant, that gave me a cause to flashback. That when you have to show something to teach them. It really is about showing and demonstrating what it can do, and walking people through step by step. At what point did you get into the analytics? Because I found that when I could show some analytics to a personality, they got a little bit interested that we could reach 15,000 people with a particular post. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:12:43 Yeah. So it's kind of interesting, because right at that time, because again, this was 2013, so right at that time, again, because I had already been working there for about two years and I'm in promotions and with how everything was going again, the industry and how everything's changing. I started to realize that being a promotions director just at some station isn't going to be the thing- It's not going to pay the bills, and they're usually the first to go when we need to save money. So I had reached out somewhere, basically to a regular placement company, and said, here's my skills. I need a full time job, because I was working full time at the station. But it was like the full time where they keep me just under, where I can't get benefits and stuff like that. And then being paid very little and being everything on my shoulders, it was too much pressure. So I had them place me at just like a regular job with how normal people have a desk job. But then I asked the radio station if I could still stay on and do remotes, and then also still mess with the Instagram. So the instagram I would still do. The example I always use is Red Rocks, which is a big nice venue out in Colorado. Eric Church was playing there one time and I was on my couch the whole time. I never set foot out there, and just by crowdsourcing, by using other people that were not professional photographers, but they're in the front row maybe. I picked up on the fact that people liked- those would get more engagement of live shots of people. So I would just ask them, hey, can I use your photo for our thing? And they would always be happy about it or something. Sometimes I would just use it and tag them in it and they're just like, oh my God, the station used my... So it's like, so at the time I wasn't really seeing numbers per se yet, but I was seeing the just again, the action, the engagement people getting. If I just liked people's photos, they would get excited. So at Red Rocks I would go see who was checking in there and just like and like and just like photos because people would see KYGO liked my photo and they'd go, whoa, that's really cool. I would do it to like local bars. Like if I know the country bars that people frequent, I would do the same thing just on account and just build the following that way. But then they had a new promotions director come in. So I think they started to see the following build and all that. So they eventually took it back over, which was fine because I was kind of done with it at that point. I think maybe this was 2015. So they kind of just started doing their own thing with it. And I guess to really like you said, to set the example of how you do something, how you can watch it grow, was then really why I started to- started The Radio Fam thing was because again, I'm playing with all these Instagrams and I'm not really playing with the radio station one anymore. But I said, okay, well, maybe I can start some kind of radio one, and if I can monetize it enough to where I can show somebody that I could sell a post for $50 or something, then right, maybe they'll listen to me and see that this is valuable, that you can make money here. And then it just sort of evolved into its own thing and now it's kind of become this whole brand on its own. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:15:28 Well, it's amazing. You started The Radio Fam, and it's got a very similar attitude to the company that I have, which is it can be a collective, and you're growing community more than anything. And I think that's probably one of the legacies about millennials in media is that they really discovered how to build community, whether it was through Instagram or newsletters and most of the tools that radio stations and my company will use to promote our wares more than anything. So here you go. You come out in 2015 with The Radio Fam, and I'm going to build a community. And what did you do next? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:16:02 Well, actually that's when it started to kind of- the ideas I was playing around. But I'd say it really started in 2017, the summer of 2017. I originally it wasn't called The Radio Fam at first. It was actually called Radio in the streets, I think, because at the time, because I just did marketing. So I was like, I thought like, okay, well I know being on the streets doing the remotes and everything, so I'm just going to highlight that stuff. But again, since we're still pretty early on Ish and Instagram, there was not a lot of other promo people and stuff like that that were easy to find. So then I was like, well, I need to start maybe featuring, again, people that are more into the ego thing. I need to go right for the radio jocks and feature them on my page. And then that's what I started to do. So maybe at the beginning of 2018, and this is when I switched to the name to The Radio Fam. And then I just started tagging jocks. And that's really how it really started to build, was that they just liked being featured somewhere. And all I would do, it would just be a picture of them. And I always- stuff had good lighting. I would saturate the colors more, make it bright, and I would just say where they were at, what's- tag the station, tag them and tag the location that they were at. And people just really liked that and they would reshare it. And then as stories started to become a thing, I almost like trained them to start tagging me in stuff because people love the behind the scenes. They love just that instant, I guess, instantness of stories. So if they would put up a video, I would screen record it on my phone and then crop it down and then I would share it into my story and then tag them in it so then they would share it. So then they started to kind of build the habit themselves of starting to just tag me and stuff. So then that was easier. I could just reshare it just by hitting one button. So I think it was once all that started to happen, that's when I started to realize the community side. It's like I didn't go in with the intention of, oh, I'm building this community, I just started to see it. And then I would start getting messages of people being like, hey, this is really cool, especially because I'm sharing positive things and wow, I didn't know that stations do this kind of stuff. Or I'm learning something from this person across the country that I didn't realize. Thanks for being a place for that. So I think as that started to come together, I'm like, oh shit. Like, I'm building a little community now. I think I'm going to go a different direction. Tara Sands (VO) 00:18:07 Transcription of the Sound Off podcast is powered by the You May Also like Podcast, the show about people, places, and things. Follow the show on your favorite podcast app or at YouMayAlsoLike.net. Mary Anne Ivison (VO) 00:18:23 This podcast supports Podcasting 2.0. If you like this show or getting value from it, hit the boost button now. If you don't have a boost button, you can get one now at newpodcastapps.com. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:36 If you had a nickel for every time you were told, but we've always done it this way, how much money would you have? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:18:44 I would be so rich. I literally have one of my t shirts on the website and a graphic I've used before. It says, we've always done it this way. And it's just crossed out. It's just like we're done. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:55 Why do you think radio is the one place where they really rely on that? And possibly newspapers as well, when it was a thing? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:19:03 I don't know. I feel that they felt that if they invested in these other things, especially like podcasting, I feel like podcasting so early on. I mean, I remember people talking about it in 2009 and people in radio would laugh about it. It would be like, oh, that's where the failed radio people go, podcasting. And it was kind of they're making fun of it. And I feel like that they were afraid that if they embraced any of that stuff, that they would lose the other side, or they wouldn't really be radio anymore, or they're taking away from the art of that. And it's like, right, I see sort of what you're saying. But I always like to use the blockbuster analogy too, though, because it's like, well, they can rent videos better, you can do radio better. But if you're not acknowledging that technology is changing and that overall, this is a brand that can encompass all these things underneath it social podcasting and all these things, it should all just work. But I think they were just threatened by it. And then now it's a thousand times worse, I think, for these companies to now say, okay, well, now we're this podcast network and now we're going to buy up this one, and we're going to do this. And I'm like, but they still don't know how to do anything with it. So just acquiring all these extra things that you don't know how to market correctly, again, it was just a big missed opportunity. There's no reason why radio shouldn't have been dominating the podcasting space. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:16 Yeah, and at the same time, some of those things that they bought up are now back for sale. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:20:21 Right. Yes, exactly. It's so true. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:20:24 When did you decide to do a podcast? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:20:28 That was at the end of 2020, I started to see- I'm big on video. I learn better from video. I love visual. And I was like, okay, there's little points that I want to make about radio, and I don't really want to just record myself talking about them. I was like, but I know some of my friends, I know that certain topics they can talk with me about, and I'm sure that I can clip some good enough stuff to start putting out online, I guess, and just knowledge sharing. And so the first couple of episodes were just that- were just me sitting down for an hour and a half or so, just talking with somebody and then putting it together in a smaller, about like an hour long episode. And it was just kind of random. Like, it wasn't really- it was just a YouTube video. But then it was, I'd say, like a few months later that I was like, I think again, in talking to people about how recycling content, and where all the different areas you can put one piece of content and repackage it, I was like, well, I know a lot of people listen to podcasts. Like, I personally am not a big podcast listener myself, but so many people do. I was like, why don't I just rip the audio off of these videos and just throw it on a podcast? And then that started to just kind of develop more. I think it gave me some discipline now too, that okay. Now we have this weekly thing that's coming out. And then I got better too, just in general, just by talking, because I also am an awkward introverted person and I wasn't doing Radio, so I don't know how to interview people. I don't know how. So I'm just like, winging it. And I don't know how to edit audio either. So I'm going back editing my audio and video and then I'm learning things about myself like, oh, like, okay, I shouldn't talk here, or like, I should. It's like I was learning how to be a better conversationalist and interviewer. So then as that started to go, I was like, okay, maybe I actually just call it branded as the podcast. Sometime within 2021 is when it started to kind of have more of a structure to that. And now it's like, now I have a graphics person that actually makes me a graphic for each episode and those kind of things. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:22:26 Isn't it amazing how a podcast or a YouTube show will alter your brand and turn it into something? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:22:33 Yeah, especially after it being a podcast more intentionally. And then now clipping the little viral, I guess, clips that I put out just on social to promote the podcast. That really is what- all of a sudden, really people were paying attention to what the brand is, I guess, because the clips sometimes go viral within the radio people, and they're like, what's this? I want to be a part of it. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:22:54 One of the things that I find is a tremendous relief compared to the show that I do is- younger, lots of personalities. There's a lot of good looking people who appear on the video and on your show. They really bring their tools and share their ideas on the show. So when you're thinking about who you're going to recruit for a guest, what are you looking for? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:23:14 I'm big on watching people on social media. How they're interacting or what they're doing, I don't know. It's like I'm creeping on them subtly and it's like something just kind of has to stand out. For example, someone like Chris Cruz, I saw that he puts out a lot of video helping people, and sits down and knows how to craft those things or has a YouTube channel. At the time too, he's specifically done this whole home studio series. So I was like, oh, that's great. He can be like this home studio expert, but he's also a face. Like, he's used to being on camera, so clearly he can do this with me. And then just in learning about other people, like, something would just be interesting to me that they're doing. Like I would see one- this girl, Erin Cooper, I had just seen, she was younger and she was somebody that went ahead and bought her LLC pretty early on and kind of acknowledges that she's her own little content brand herself. And I just was like, wow, she's so young. And being able to realize that, because that's what I think people should really- that's how I think radio has kind of changed, so I want to know her story. It's usually kind of something on social media that's gotten my attention, or they're just a friend of mine that I know of, a background. I have a friend that just he's now up in like kind of upper management now, and I've kind of known him since he was a part timer, so it was interesting to hear now- his episode comes out next week, but to have him do management different, he's a millennial and he's the big point across that we talk about in there is that he wants to be the manager that he wanted to work for when he was younger. And I've noticed that pattern too. And a lot of the people that I bring on unintentionally, they all have the desire to give back in like a more positive way based on either what they were inspired by a positive person or they were saying, I don't want to be managed like that. I want to do it better. I don't want to close my doors to the interns. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:24:54 Yeah, I think that's fascinating. And one of the differences I was going to point out is that I've got a lot more consultants and managers who will come on to this show, but I see you're actually going to have one as well and I look forward to hearing that episode, by the way. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:25:07 That's another thing too, is I like pulling out people, because I felt like a lot of the podcasts that I was kind of seeing or when people would tap into, I don't know, collabing with other people, they're always kind of going for the top well known names. And I get it, because people listen like, oh, what Elvis is going to be on that? I'm going to listen. Or if that person shares it, they're going to have more people just exposed to it. But as I was- even me being like- my credentials, I felt like if you looked on my resume, it's not like- I never thought that it blew anybody away, but I know that I have the right knowledge. So I was noticing that and other people too, that just because they're not in LA, or this top ten market, there's people in market 200-something that can speak to it just fine. They know exactly what they're talking about. So I like kind of bringing in those names too, that people go, I've never heard of this person. Like, who is this? What are their credentials? But all you have to do is hear them talk. First of all, people's jobs change so much. But I don't sit here and say, here's this person that we have on from this thing. And they're doing this because in a few months they're probably doing something completely different. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:26:07 One of the things I really like is you're bringing people on who are local, but they also do the social and they share the social techniques, because so many radio companies put this pressure on personalities to come up with X amount of this, that, and the other thing, whether it's likes or hits or impressions. So one week you'll have somebody who comes on to talk about TikTok, and somebody who's actually mastered Twitch. Did you deliberately make the show about growing your social through radio? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:26:36 No, I think I started- like, I think that was kind of the intention a little bit kind of early on, like, oh, we'll just have an expert for each person. But I feel what I'm kind of learning I think is more interesting, is kind of the story- like everybody's different story, first of all, how they first learned about radio and what made them interested and how they got in. Because some people- They're all just so different and sometimes so creative. And I feel like sometimes that makes it too relatable. If somebody hears that, well, they didn't just know, they're not just that person's relative or whatever. It's like, wow, this is how they got creative, or this is how they were able to navigate the troubles, I guess, that the industry brought them. And also what I learned too is that I started bringing people on with that intention too, of having talking about a certain topic, but then in the conversation, something else would be a lot more interesting. So then we'd end up going down that instead. So now I just kind of have questions I want to ask, but I'm not so into that. Try to just kind of make it a regular conversation, and then I just kind of pull out the pieces that kind of resonate more or that I think the audience will like. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:27:34 One of the things that's really nice if you have a podcast, is do you have something to sell? And you've got a lot to sell because you've got some excellent merch. Tell me about the merch. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:27:44 Yeah, and that actually kind of came first. That was really, I guess, what made me say that this was a company, I guess, full on company/brand, because again, it was just an Instagram account and Twitter and a few other things. And I have a logo. I had a logo at the time, but no, it wasn't colored yet. I hadn't picked a color for it. So the people that have the OG stickers, it's a gray logo, so I give people stickers for free. That's how it kind of started. I was just like, hey, if you're interested. And I didn't think people would be, but I was like, Send me a DM with your address, and I'll send you a free sticker. And a lot of people were actually interested in it. So then seeing people- then when they were sharing the sticker, they put it on their laptop or their guitar case and stuff like that, and I'm like, wow, that's really cool to see my brand, and especially some people in different countries wanted it, and so I'd send it out there, too. So to see my sticker showing up across the world, I was like, that's really bizarre. Then, honestly, it was because of the pandemic. I went down a YouTube rabbit hole of people, how they make money, or just how they build these brands. And after just going down a few of them, I was like, okay, because I always wanted to have T shirts and wanted to have stuff like that, but I didn't know that you could do stuff like print on demand and things like that. I always felt like, I don't have a warehouse. I don't have the money to buy this stuff up front and hope to sell it. So it just didn't even think- I didn't think that it was anything I would ever be able to do. But then once I learned that people can do this, and I also like that it being less wasteful in that regard, that people it's only printed when people buy it, and you get less of a return on each shirt, but it's fine. It's more just interesting to learn and see what people like. So then over the pandemic, I started to create just T shirts with, like, funny sayings or just very basic one. I'm just kind of copying what I see other people do. Eat, sleep, radio, repeat those kinds of things. So there's that element to it. Or finding things like headphone adapters. I sell things like that too. But what I would love to start getting into more is, I have a love for vintage. I love vintage just in general. And I love as a marketing person too. I love vintage, like, swag too. So old T shirts or old. And actually I think next to it is like a ten-ten wins clock right there. So I like the stuff for myself, but I also can't pour it all. So I like to resell the stuff too, because also it gives it like I know it's going to like a good home. So if there's an old T shirt, like from Goodwill or something like that, it's like, yeah. Will a radio person actually appreciate that more? Or even maybe not a radio person, maybe somebody that just has nostalgia for that certain thing and buys it. And I noticed there wasn't another place that was doing that quite like me, that has just a very modern store that you can go on and say, I want that old radio and I'm going to buy that one. Or I want that cool ten-ten wins clock. And some of it's just old radio, like shaped things. Like one I have an Old Navy, like, toy radio. It just looks neat. It's not necessarily that old or vintage or antique or anything, but it's something that's radio related. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:30:41 Do you feel like the show or your company is an agent for change? Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:30:46 Yeah, definitely. And I think at first I wanted to go in with it and kind of teach radio stations how to change and do that. But it's such a big beast, and you have to have so many of the right things aligned that I kind of instead changed the mission of The Radio Fam to really focus on people themselves. Because I see also how like, their self esteem can sometimes be knocked down because of what this radio station is telling them or what they learned. I don't think they realize how many talents they have, especially now with how technology is. It's really helpful that these people know how to edit audio, and edit video, and those things because how many podcasts or how many companies have that? And they don't know what they're doing, they just plug a microphone into the thing. But radio people really have just like a one up on all that stuff. So it's like almost now I try to use it as a change for people to kind of look at themselves a different way. So don't just tie your worth to the radio station. Like build something outside of it and try to demonstrate to them how it can help them. Or realizing that now if they lose their radio job that you're not done for, there's all these different outlets like podcasting, Twitch, all these kind of things where people can get on and still be a personality and still let their voice be heard and even sometimes do it better. Or again, I think into the confidence thing. So I have this other friend who she had gone and gotten let go from iHeart, and she had a podcast too, that I think she had to wait to start even after her non compete was up, but she just decided locally, I've always wanted to do this with a station. I've always wanted to raise money for the local women's shelter here and do like a little Galentine's Day gift basket sort of thing with hygiene and that kind of thing and not people not really getting behind it. But when she didn't have a job, she's like, okay, well, I've got my podcast and I'm going to take it to social media. She's a likable person and good on social and was just saying, hey, I'm raising money to do this. Who wants to help me out? And I know last year she had, I think, doubled her goal. I know she ran over $1,000 for it and was able to make like 25, like, really nice, like, baskets, and to have people over at her house and to stuff them, and then her herself to go take them to the shelter. And so she got this, like, confidence, like, wow, look what I could just do by myself. If I can raise over $1,000, just me, imagine what a radio station could do with this, you know? So I know she's still not employed full time at a radio station, but she was just did it again this year, you know, and people again, they get excited to want to contribute to something again. You know, they can see it's a more mini community, you know, you see, like, wow, my dollar. I contribute $25 to that. And I get to see the baskets that made, and I get to see my friend Nina go take it, you know, and drop it off to these people. So, yeah. So the focus I think now is just really, how can I help people change their perception about themselves in navigating the radio and entertainment industry? Matt Cundill (Host) 00:33:33 That is so well said. And I started this podcast in 2016, and I thought enough radio people might listen to it, that they go, yeah, you know what, we are doing things wrong. And it turns out that's not what happened. It was the personalities who came and would listen to the show and they would listen to the experts and then realize, I need to learn that. I need to pick that up. It is changing. I'm going to need to pick up one more little skill along the way. And a few of them have come up to me now and said, hey, thanks for that. Thanks for teaching me that, because now I'm going to be doing this particular thing. And they didn't necessarily leave radio. In some cases, they picked up the skills and they managed to stay a little bit longer in radio because they managed to pick up some skills. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:34:20 Exactly. Very fulfilling. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:34:22 All I have to say is, keep doing what you're doing. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:34:25 Thank you. We're helping the radio industry one person at a time. Matt Cundill (Host) 00:34:29 Marie, thanks so much for being on the show. I appreciate it. Marie (The Radio Fam) 00:34:31 Yeah, thank you for having me. Tara Sands (VO) 00:34:33 The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill. Produced by Evan Surminski. Social media by Courtney Krebsbach. Another great creation from the Soundoff Media Company. There's always more at soundoffpodcast.com.